Legislating happy thoughts about Israel

[tombldr]

The matter of Israel and its remarkable influence in US politics, and by extention world politics, is one of those lightning rod topics it's hard to have a dialog about even at "librul" hangouts like smirkingchimp. The number of message threads I've seen there lately where one of the militant ADL chimpsters hijacks a dialog which wasn't, or was only peripherally, about Israel, and starts tarring other chimpsters and/or an article's author with the "antisemetic" label; to have BoardNazi lock/delete the thread, has been extraordinary. Chimpsters here at DD who've also noticed this already know the names, but off hand I'd name MD-Dem, Sherimj, Mateo as three who I've seen singlehandedly, or tag team, hijack threads and turn them into flame wars. Their common message seems to be, say something critical of Israel, or don't, and be publicly tarred antisemetic, a freeper, or otherwise ignorant in some derogatory way. Their effect is, supressing dialog merely ABOUT Israel, in an otherwise "anything goes" liberal dialog venue. Noticing this, heightened by watching in dismay as threads I started or was following/participating in got hijacked/locked/deleted by a small vocal minority with a pointed agenda; my curiousity about this radioactive Israel thing is only piqued.

Add to that, Israel has apparently already won this years US election, with both Bush and Kerry scrambling to out-pro-Israel one another. In the eyes of most of the rest of the world, the US and Israel are the pariah twins, with serious questions as to who is whose puppet. It's also a jump ball as to whether Dems or 'pugs are more eager to cowtow to Israeli interests... causing me to speculate that it's something much deeper than the American Jewish vote at stake... as that vote is widely rumored to be overwhelmingly Dem.

I'm a fairly new student to the role of Israel in US and world politics, and I readily concede there's more I don't know on the subject than I do know. But what I do see, including that strikingly vigillent and effective "ADL Brownshirt" subset within the online "librul" community whose common message seems to be, "bring any negative attention to Israel, go to jail"; only begs a good close look at Israel among the intellectually curious. Is Israel's privileged place in US politics just a matter of a hyper-organized & effective Israeli lobby; perhaps combined with an effective blackout of information about the US/Israeli relationship which could alarm the average American taxpayer about their anual tax dollars propping up Israel? Something tells me that it's also a matter of, Israel "knowing where the bodies are buried", thus having the Washington political establishment by the 'nads? Remeber Netenyahu, and how seemingly beligerent he often was towards the US, despite that we're the proverbial hand that feeds? Always struck me as a case of, he's got some sort gun pointed at us below the table. Same with Sharon, who allegedly threatened CheneyCo with calling off his recent DC visit if aWol didn't publicly support his controversial Palestinian pull-back plan. And CheneyCo fell into line, handing Sharon his endorsement, which ultimately blew up in both their faces as the plan met with overwhelming defeat in the Israeli legislature.

I'm really struggling to understand, what are the most root political/economic jugular vessels between the US and Israel, causing such Washington cowtowing towards them. Is Israel an extension of the US MIC; as a reliable buyer of US weapons? Is it the value of the Mossad, with eyes and ears throughout the mideast, dutifully passing on intelligence which the US uses for the dual purpose of keeping OPEC nations divided thus assuring our industrial lifeblood: oil flows cheaply; as well as selling weapons to the Arab nations we're covertly manipulating to keep pitted against one another? If this is the case, what does Mossad bring to the game which our own CIA can't accomplish? Or is it some sort of international banking leverage which Israeli-nationalists worldwide hold, which could somehow devistate the US if they pulled just the right levers? I'll admit, this later point I'm most vague on, as it's a charge I see thrown around in articles which the ADL brownshirts are so quick to condemn, yet good empirical data which we can look at and decide for ourselves seems a scarce commodity. Is the answer "d", all of the above?

If someone could share their wisdom on the above, or point me to some excellent reading, I'd be most appreciative. It's such a *loaded* topic, I'll assume any voice brings their own bias, and I'll just have to sort through that like a big boy.

From the rabid antisemites at the UN:

Resolution 127: " . . . 'recommends' Israel suspends it's 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem".

Resolution 250: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem".

Resolution 251: " . . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".

Resolution 252: " . . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".

Resolution 267: " . . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".

Resolution 271: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".

Resolution 298: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".

Resolution 476: " . . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'".

Resolution 478: " . . . 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'".

Resolution 673: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.

Okay, as to the subject line of this thread, the following was what I really opened this topic for. I think you'll find these items most relevant to my questions above.

`Global Anti-Semitism Awareness Act of 2004'
thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.4230:
(will a "Global Palestinian-Plight Awareness Act" be forthcoming?)

Schools Not Teaching Pro-Israel
Views To Lose Funding
Congress To Pass 'Ideological Diversity' Legislation
www.rense.com/general37/idleg.htm

More Israel-critical links than you can handle, complete with clever opinion quips
www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/cat_israel.html

PS: anyone dare me to post this at smirkingchimp? how many minutes would you bet it lasts before getting locked/deleted?

[Ropegun]

I dare you to do it. ;D

I wish I knew more about this same subject, and I'll have to do some research into it while I'm looking into the North Korean situation.

If I find anything interesting or useful, I'll be sure to foreward it to you Tom.

I agree wholeheartedly about the shrillness that is TSC, but I'll go further and add that it extends to the ABB crowd there as well. If anything is said about Kerry being a corporate stooge along the lines of Bush, several people will do the same flaming and namecalling as in the Israel/Palestine discussions. It makes it very hard to actually come to educated conclusions to these discussions.

Which is why I came here. People here have a more open mind about things and discuss things rationally and logically, without the shouting down and petty game playing(lint picking navel gazers) of TSC.

So, welcome here Tombldr. I suspect you will turn out to be an asset to this forum.


Peace.

[tombldr]

Hey Ropey, you post it at TSC. I double dare you.

Thing is, once that genie's out of the bottle, the ADL crowd there will bookmark your profile, and follow everything you ever post again with "but what does HE know, he completely discredited himself with THIS thread over here! Go back to freeperville, you vile antisemetic/ignorant/closed-minded reptile!!"

[Ropegun]

Ok Tom.....I'll post it. I don't really care what those people think of me personally. I'm already outcast and thought of as working for Bush do to my dislike of DLC policy and the general lack of democratic party understanding towards the needs of the amaerican people.

I do have some things to say to respond to your questions about Isreal/U.S. relations though.

First, you have to understand the jewish mindset regarding persecution they have recieved in the past, and how they use this as a tool for political advantage. AIPAC is a pretty powerful lobbying group that will shout nonstop at any voice that opposes Israeli interests. And since arabs and other groups who are in fact persecuted by Israel have no similar voice in this country, and since no politician will go out on that kind of limb for people like the Palestinians, AIPAC pretty much dictates what U.S. policy will be regarding certain issues.

Combine this with the fundamentalist christians in this country, who feel as though they are tied somehow with Isreal due to interpretations they have of the bible, and you can see just how powerful the pro-Israel voice is. Not to mention the fact that Israel buys plenty of weapons from us, and does supply intelligence information to the CIA, and provides the U.S with staging areas for operations in other mid-east countries.

So, combining the lack of voice from other communities, the mixing of christian and jewish religious beliefs, political expediency and plain old money, you can see that Israel pretty much has the U.S. right where it wants us. And at this point theres not much we can do about it.

As far as reading material, I'll have something of a list for you as soon as possible.

I hope this gives you an idea of where to start your own research.


Peace.

[tombldr]

Okay Ropegun. You may just want to edit it a bit to delete references to "DD" and those ADL chimpsters who will surely take the bait anyways.

In the Pat Tillman Eulogy thread, MD-Dem was blabbering on about god and religion as certaintys to Tillman's whereabouts. Religious true-believers like him are prime fodder for nationalistic mind-copulating, ala Commander aWol's chrisitan dupe base.

[Moses]

It is very possible that there is a blackmail/extortion aspect to the intended take-over of the US by Israeli interests. And possibly some secret pacts that go way back that we are not told about in the case of Blair, e.g. (could be both in his case).

The Israeli interest has been working on taking over the US political apparatus for several decades. This includes the Unions. But also the far-right/Christians. The propaganda has been orchestrated and funded by Israeli interests.

The take-over of the media is obvious. Almost all the fascists/Jules Streichers are Jewish manipulating the US in the most sinister manner for Israeli interests.

But the infiltration of the US intelligence and one military academy took place from back in the anti-USSR days, due to particular Jewish interests in the USSR, and add to that the elitism. The Jewish elite and the WASP elite have been attending Ivy League schools and members of Skull and Bones, etc. since the 20s.

[Ropegun]

Thats exactly what I mean, Moses.

Between the jewish interests and the fundie right wingers here in amerika, it's very difficult to get past them to make a statement.

As far as smoking guns and things in the past, none of us will ever know anything about it if it does exist. Those in power would never allow us little people to know those kinds of things.

The best we can do is look at where they are, and what partnerships and consortiums they have, and deduce the kind of influence they have over our elected officials.

Just know going in that we're going to have a very very hard time doing anything against those two particular groups. They have alot of money, excellent organization and alot of solidarity between them, even if the fundies are just dupes in this game.

Anyway, that was just my take on that question.


Peace.

[Moses]

Yes. They seem to have co-opted the Unions on the one hand, and the fundamentalist Christians on the other. And don't forget the media.

Basically, it is Nazi Germany, and seems to have been modeled after the take-over of Nazi Germany by the Nazis.

[Ropegun]

Yes, it would be quite ironic, would'nt it?
Jews, of all people, using the tactics and strategies of Nazi Germany?

The thing I don't quite understand is, according to Webster's Dictionary, semites are both jews and non jewish arabs. So, if this is the case, then are'nt the Israelis being anti-semitic in their behavior towards other arabs? Is'nt this just a little bit hypocritical of them?

So they kill Palestinians without remorse, yet we are to feel sorry for them when those same Palestinians kill Israelis?

Maybe it is true that they feel the world owes them something for what happened at the hands of the nazis. I think this has a huge impact on Israeli and jewish thought.

The scary part to me is, I've been told by fundie christians that amerika is what it is today, as in rich, due to support of Israel, and if we pulled that support, god's blessing would leave us. This is truly ridiculous, and is a complete misinterpretation of the bible as it is written.

I guess Jesus had it right all along. "His" people truly are sheep.

Peace.

[Moses]

Israelis aren't semites, they are Europeans.

Christians who make the claims you mention certainly don't care about their souls. If you go by the bible, (New Testament) it says that God was going to put pagans in Israel-- so it was God who put the Palestinians there, and plant orchards and such, and they are removing God's people and destroying God's orchards etc. God was angry at the conduct of the Jews. So they think they are currying favor with God? Just the opposite. Second, they completely betray the teachings of Jesus by their support of Israel and the Israeli settlers. So they are worse betrayers than Judas, and similar. (looking at it from a religious perspective -- not to mention to utter evil of what they are doing by any measure. ) -- in addition, they aren't supposed to be usurping God and pretending to know "his will".

Jesus was constantly frustrated by how dim-witted humans were. He says that's why he spoke in parables and used symbols and was frustrated when he was taken literally.

These people are not Jesus friends -- they are his enemies.

[tombldr]

Here's another TSC classic:

www.smirkingchimp.com/viewtopic.php?topic=40455&forum=5

Oh yeah, I forgot "MissMarple", another ADL whip. See her reply #6

[Moses]

Still getting the following message:


"Message boards are temporarily available only to registered users."

[RPankn]

tombldr said:

Here's another TSC classic:

www.smirkingchimp.com/viewtopic.php?topic=40455&forum=5

Oh yeah, I forgot "MissMarple", another ADL whip. See her reply #6

She's also a rabid bigot and racist. Watch some of the posts and comments she makes about Blacks and Latinos.

[Ropegun]

The thing is, is when you confront the ADL/AIPAC hacks in TSC with logic, all they do is yell and scream about antisemitism.

I think they really know that they are the ones helping Bush and the religious right by shouting down those who don't like the U.S./Israel connection. They have to understand that they are helping the neocons in their agenda, because of the support the fundies give Israel.

If they actually are lefties, then they are delusional dupes. And that makes them dangerous to everyone.

That place is just a mess, and BoardNaggy is no different than the rest.

[calabi-yau]

Ropegun said:

Maybe it is true that they feel the world owes them something for what happened at the hands of the nazis. I think this has a huge impact on Israeli and jewish thought.

The scary part to me is, I've been told by fundie christians that amerika is what it is today, as in rich, due to support of Israel, and if we pulled that support, god's blessing would leave us. This is truly ridiculous, and is a complete misinterpretation of the bible as it is written.

I guess Jesus had it right all along. "His" people truly are sheep.

Peace.

Well said Ropegun.
Jews do not think the world owes them anything because according to their religious laws, THEY ARE the world and THEY ARE the chosen ones.
Doesn't it closely ressemble the extreme right in Amerika today ? THEY WILL BE RAPTURED into the hand of God.
How about the American myth, WE ARE NUMBER ONE !

Lots of "I am THE one" out there by the looks of it. The sheeple all want to be kings and queens, if not here than in the hereafter.

I'd rather stay with Jesus' beatitude : Happy are the meek...
We will inherit the earth allright but in what kind of condition will THE ONES leave it in ?