Post by tombldr on May 9, 2004 1:41:19 GMT -5
The matter of Israel and its remarkable influence in US politics, and by extention world politics, is one of those lightning rod topics it's hard to have a dialog about even at "librul" hangouts like smirkingchimp. The number of message threads I've seen there lately where one of the militant ADL chimpsters hijacks a dialog which wasn't, or was only peripherally, about Israel, and starts tarring other chimpsters and/or an article's author with the "antisemetic" label; to have BoardNazi lock/delete the thread, has been extraordinary. Chimpsters here at DD who've also noticed this already know the names, but off hand I'd name MD-Dem, Sherimj, Mateo as three who I've seen singlehandedly, or tag team, hijack threads and turn them into flame wars. Their common message seems to be, say something critical of Israel, or don't, and be publicly tarred antisemetic, a freeper, or otherwise ignorant in some derogatory way. Their effect is, supressing dialog merely ABOUT Israel, in an otherwise "anything goes" liberal dialog venue. Noticing this, heightened by watching in dismay as threads I started or was following/participating in got hijacked/locked/deleted by a small vocal minority with a pointed agenda; my curiousity about this radioactive Israel thing is only piqued.
Add to that, Israel has apparently already won this years US election, with both Bush and Kerry scrambling to out-pro-Israel one another. In the eyes of most of the rest of the world, the US and Israel are the pariah twins, with serious questions as to who is whose puppet. It's also a jump ball as to whether Dems or 'pugs are more eager to cowtow to Israeli interests... causing me to speculate that it's something much deeper than the American Jewish vote at stake... as that vote is widely rumored to be overwhelmingly Dem.
I'm a fairly new student to the role of Israel in US and world politics, and I readily concede there's more I don't know on the subject than I do know. But what I do see, including that strikingly vigillent and effective "ADL Brownshirt" subset within the online "librul" community whose common message seems to be, "bring any negative attention to Israel, go to jail"; only begs a good close look at Israel among the intellectually curious. Is Israel's privileged place in US politics just a matter of a hyper-organized & effective Israeli lobby; perhaps combined with an effective blackout of information about the US/Israeli relationship which could alarm the average American taxpayer about their anual tax dollars propping up Israel? Something tells me that it's also a matter of, Israel "knowing where the bodies are buried", thus having the Washington political establishment by the 'nads? Remeber Netenyahu, and how seemingly beligerent he often was towards the US, despite that we're the proverbial hand that feeds? Always struck me as a case of, he's got some sort gun pointed at us below the table. Same with Sharon, who allegedly threatened CheneyCo with calling off his recent DC visit if aWol didn't publicly support his controversial Palestinian pull-back plan. And CheneyCo fell into line, handing Sharon his endorsement, which ultimately blew up in both their faces as the plan met with overwhelming defeat in the Israeli legislature.
I'm really struggling to understand, what are the most root political/economic jugular vessels between the US and Israel, causing such Washington cowtowing towards them. Is Israel an extension of the US MIC; as a reliable buyer of US weapons? Is it the value of the Mossad, with eyes and ears throughout the mideast, dutifully passing on intelligence which the US uses for the dual purpose of keeping OPEC nations divided thus assuring our industrial lifeblood: oil flows cheaply; as well as selling weapons to the Arab nations we're covertly manipulating to keep pitted against one another? If this is the case, what does Mossad bring to the game which our own CIA can't accomplish? Or is it some sort of international banking leverage which Israeli-nationalists worldwide hold, which could somehow devistate the US if they pulled just the right levers? I'll admit, this later point I'm most vague on, as it's a charge I see thrown around in articles which the ADL brownshirts are so quick to condemn, yet good empirical data which we can look at and decide for ourselves seems a scarce commodity. Is the answer "d", all of the above?
If someone could share their wisdom on the above, or point me to some excellent reading, I'd be most appreciative. It's such a *loaded* topic, I'll assume any voice brings their own bias, and I'll just have to sort through that like a big boy.
From the rabid antisemites at the UN:
Resolution 127: " . . . 'recommends' Israel suspends it's 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem".
Resolution 250: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem".
Resolution 251: " . . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".
Resolution 252: " . . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".
Resolution 267: " . . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".
Resolution 271: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".
Resolution 298: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".
Resolution 476: " . . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'".
Resolution 478: " . . . 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'".
Resolution 673: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.
Okay, as to the subject line of this thread, the following was what I really opened this topic for. I think you'll find these items most relevant to my questions above.
`Global Anti-Semitism Awareness Act of 2004'
thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.4230:
(will a "Global Palestinian-Plight Awareness Act" be forthcoming?)
Schools Not Teaching Pro-Israel
Views To Lose Funding
Congress To Pass 'Ideological Diversity' Legislation
www.rense.com/general37/idleg.htm
More Israel-critical links than you can handle, complete with clever opinion quips
www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/cat_israel.html
PS: anyone dare me to post this at smirkingchimp? how many minutes would you bet it lasts before getting locked/deleted?
Add to that, Israel has apparently already won this years US election, with both Bush and Kerry scrambling to out-pro-Israel one another. In the eyes of most of the rest of the world, the US and Israel are the pariah twins, with serious questions as to who is whose puppet. It's also a jump ball as to whether Dems or 'pugs are more eager to cowtow to Israeli interests... causing me to speculate that it's something much deeper than the American Jewish vote at stake... as that vote is widely rumored to be overwhelmingly Dem.
I'm a fairly new student to the role of Israel in US and world politics, and I readily concede there's more I don't know on the subject than I do know. But what I do see, including that strikingly vigillent and effective "ADL Brownshirt" subset within the online "librul" community whose common message seems to be, "bring any negative attention to Israel, go to jail"; only begs a good close look at Israel among the intellectually curious. Is Israel's privileged place in US politics just a matter of a hyper-organized & effective Israeli lobby; perhaps combined with an effective blackout of information about the US/Israeli relationship which could alarm the average American taxpayer about their anual tax dollars propping up Israel? Something tells me that it's also a matter of, Israel "knowing where the bodies are buried", thus having the Washington political establishment by the 'nads? Remeber Netenyahu, and how seemingly beligerent he often was towards the US, despite that we're the proverbial hand that feeds? Always struck me as a case of, he's got some sort gun pointed at us below the table. Same with Sharon, who allegedly threatened CheneyCo with calling off his recent DC visit if aWol didn't publicly support his controversial Palestinian pull-back plan. And CheneyCo fell into line, handing Sharon his endorsement, which ultimately blew up in both their faces as the plan met with overwhelming defeat in the Israeli legislature.
I'm really struggling to understand, what are the most root political/economic jugular vessels between the US and Israel, causing such Washington cowtowing towards them. Is Israel an extension of the US MIC; as a reliable buyer of US weapons? Is it the value of the Mossad, with eyes and ears throughout the mideast, dutifully passing on intelligence which the US uses for the dual purpose of keeping OPEC nations divided thus assuring our industrial lifeblood: oil flows cheaply; as well as selling weapons to the Arab nations we're covertly manipulating to keep pitted against one another? If this is the case, what does Mossad bring to the game which our own CIA can't accomplish? Or is it some sort of international banking leverage which Israeli-nationalists worldwide hold, which could somehow devistate the US if they pulled just the right levers? I'll admit, this later point I'm most vague on, as it's a charge I see thrown around in articles which the ADL brownshirts are so quick to condemn, yet good empirical data which we can look at and decide for ourselves seems a scarce commodity. Is the answer "d", all of the above?
If someone could share their wisdom on the above, or point me to some excellent reading, I'd be most appreciative. It's such a *loaded* topic, I'll assume any voice brings their own bias, and I'll just have to sort through that like a big boy.
From the rabid antisemites at the UN:
Resolution 127: " . . . 'recommends' Israel suspends it's 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem".
Resolution 250: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem".
Resolution 251: " . . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".
Resolution 252: " . . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".
Resolution 267: " . . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".
Resolution 271: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".
Resolution 298: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".
Resolution 476: " . . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'".
Resolution 478: " . . . 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'".
Resolution 673: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.
Okay, as to the subject line of this thread, the following was what I really opened this topic for. I think you'll find these items most relevant to my questions above.
`Global Anti-Semitism Awareness Act of 2004'
thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.4230:
(will a "Global Palestinian-Plight Awareness Act" be forthcoming?)
Schools Not Teaching Pro-Israel
Views To Lose Funding
Congress To Pass 'Ideological Diversity' Legislation
www.rense.com/general37/idleg.htm
More Israel-critical links than you can handle, complete with clever opinion quips
www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/cat_israel.html
PS: anyone dare me to post this at smirkingchimp? how many minutes would you bet it lasts before getting locked/deleted?