British theocratic imperialist roots of zionism

[Moses]

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Ayoon wa Azan (Don't Know Much)

Jihad Al Khazen     Al-Hayat     2005/01/7


No matter how deep I delve into Christian Zionist thought and their activities, I still do not know as much as the real experts on the subject, such as Reverend Stephen Sizer. He is the vicar of Christchurch, Virginia Water, Surrey, England and chairman of the International Bible Society (UK). His book, Christian Zionism: Road Map to Armageddon?, based on his PhD thesis, has been long-awaited, especially since an 84-page condensed version was published earlier this year. The new 298-page book is a milestone publication and excellent source.

The book is published in London; the author is still seeking a publisher in the U.S. Sizer's book was launched at a meeting hosted by the Council for Arab-British Understanding (CAABU), which colleague Suzannah Tarbush attended and provided me with a substantial run through of the book.

Dr. Sizer explained that he tried to do three things in his book:

Firstly, to show that the historical roots of the Arab-Israeli conflict can be largely attributed to Christians [Church of England] in Britain in the 19th century who combined their biblical views with political expediency to control the Middle East and promise the same bit of real estate to the Jews and the Arabs while promising the French we would keep it for ourselves.

Secondly, the way in which this movement from Britain went over to the U.S. and developed a theology that sacralises a land, which elevates a people, the Jews, to a status superior to that of other races, which sees Jerusalem as this exclusive capital, that is supporting the settlement program and the rebuilding of a Jewish temple, and which has an apocalyptic view of the future, that is deeply disruptive of any peace settlement, and is justifying, essentially, the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

Thirdly, which is the most controversial, is a look at the political consequences of this theology.

Sizer said, "What I've really done is join up the dots between those who've written about Zionism and those who've written about what is known as "dispensationalism" in the U.S., a theological framework that says the Jews have a separate in God's purposes, apart from all of the other races. All I've done is join up the dots up until this is what they're teaching, and these are the consequences on the ground."

"The summary of the book would be that Christian Zionism is a heresy in Christian terms, and it's the most influential and destructive Christian movement in the world today. And the book is a contribution of challenging that stance. It's a lonely journey, controversial, it's strategic and it's an unfinished journey," he added.

Sizer warned that the church in Palestine is close to extinction numerically, and that the situation will worsen in the ongoing confrontation with the Christian Zionists.

Perhaps it is beneficial to note some of the main points in Sizer's book:

The Christian Zionist movement is at least ten times larger than the Jewish Zionist movement, conservative estimates suggest, and has become a dominant lobby within contemporary American politics. The theological system underpinning Christian Zionism is based on ultra-literal and futuristic reading of the Bible, while its origins are rooted to the Reformation and Puritanism, is essentially the product of early 19th century millenialist sectarianism. Christian Zionism through its active and public support of Jewish restoration to Palestine, predated the rise of Jewish Zionism by at least 60 years. While the strategic value of a Jewish homeland in Palestine was a factor in British foreign policy during the 19th century, it became a feature of American foreign policy by the end of the 20th century. Without the sustained political support of Christian Zionists in America, and significant government funding, it is doubtful whether the state of Israel would have remained in existence since 1948, let alone continued to occupy and settle the West Bank since 1967.

Dr. Sizer explains the Rapture better than I did in my last few columns. He speaks of two stages; the anti-Christ will rise and Jesus' Second Coming to save the believers. The book cites Zionist organizations that dissociate themselves from the apocalyptic dispensationalism. "This hope in a secret Rapture perhaps explains why dispensationalists are either complacent or disinterested in what will happen to the Jews during the Tribulation," he says.

In the book, Sizer includes a table of the constructive and destructive aspects of Christian Zionism and "the ways it may be seen as a blessing curse for the Jewish people." The constructive aspects, which are not unique to Christian Zionism, are: encouragement of dialogue between Jews and Christians; commitment to share the gospel with the Jewish people; stand against anti-Semitism; education of the gentile church in the Jewish origins of the Christian faith; and compassion for a humanitarian work among Jewish refugees.

But against these five constructive aspects are seven negative aspects: justification of apartheid within an exclusive Jewish state; undermining Christian witness in the Middle East by partisan support for Israel; encouragement of religious intolerance and Islamophobia; tacit acceptance of the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians by the support for Jewish settlements; denigration of moderate Jews willing to negotiate a land-for-peace settlement; incitement of religious fanaticism by supporting the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple on the Haram Al-Sharif and apocalyptic eschatology in danger of becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Stephen Sizer is not alone, many agree with views. Garth Hewitt, director of the Amos Trust, singer, and songwriter, introduced Sizer at the CAABU meeting.

Hewitt said, "For many people, Christian Zionism is a mystery: where has this come from, what is it, why is it having an impact?"

Hewitt added that Sizer can happily be described as an evangelical theologian; his book is an opportunity for everyone to realize that there is another viewpoint; a viewpoint that is opposed to Christian Zionists' viewpoint.

Hewitt said the book gives us the history, "And as I read that history, I thought my goodness you [Christian Zionists] are barking mad, it's really strange stuff." He focused on the importance of other Christians, and the whole world, the thought of the Christian Zionists; since they influence U.S. foreign policy, which means they affect all countries, not just Middle Eastern countries.

Hewitt noted that despite Christian Zionists' support of the Jews, they have a patronizing viewpoint of them - they consider them in some way, cogs in some celestial plan to achieve the Second Coming of Christ.

In contrast to Hewitt and U.S. and British Christian organizations' support, there is opposition. I conclude tomorrow.

[Moses]

Ayoon wa Azan (Religious Prejudice)

Jihad Al Khazen     Al-Hayat     2005/01/8


Reverend Stephen Sizer found a publisher for his book, Christian Zionism: Road Map to Armageddon, in the United Kingdom, which is Inter-Varsity Press; however, he is still seeking a publisher in the United States where Christian Zionists are so influential that makes many hesitant to go up against them. a hate campaign against the book and its publisher started even before it was published.

In the book launch meeting, Sizer said, "It is a controversial issue and the publisher (IVP) has already been criticized in writing by the leaders of two Christian Zionist organizations, one of whom wanted changes to the book before it was published, or he threatened legal action, and the second wrote this week again threatening legal action for what was said in it, but we stand by the book and I trust that IVP will as well."

In Britain, the ardently Zionist Jew Geoffrey Alderman, who writes a regular column in the weekly London-based Jewish Chronicle newspaper, accused Middlesex University of giving Sizer a doctorate for "little more than his own religious prejudices dressed up in academic guise."

What about Alderman's religious prejudice? What about his support of a criminal government in Israel that kills women and children?

Dr. Sizer wrote his thesis while at Oak Hill College, a biblical training college for Church of England vicars, which is accredited by Middlesex University. Alderman happens to have been vice-chancellor at Middlesex, with responsibility for quality assurance, from 1994 to 1999, and is professor emeritus at the university.

Alderman raised his concerns in the Jewish Chronicle, seeing the thesis as part of what he alleged is a growing backlash against Christian Zionism. For their part, Sizer and Middlesex University suggested that Alderman was motivated more by his personal political and religious standpoint rather than by academic concerns.

The Times Higher Education Supplement picked up on the story, and was told by Sizer that Alderman is "an angry man who has upset a lot of people in various academic institutions. I'm not surprised he has gone for this approach because the simplest way of undermining criticism of Israel is to undermine the credibility of those who criticize it."

Sizer added: "If you can't disagree intellectually with someone's arguments, you try to undermine them in other ways. Those who have taken a stand against the policies of Sharon have had their credibility questioned."

The examiners of the thesis were the professor of theology at King's College, London, Andrew Walker and the professor of religion and Middle Eastern studies at North Park University in Chicago, Donald Wagner, who is also executive director of the university's Center for Middle Eastern Studies.

Professor Walker told The Times Higher Education Supplement: "It is strange an academic with strong Zionist connections should attack the thesis for its political bias. The question is not, is it pro-Palestinian, or even a brilliant thesis, but does it pass muster?" He added: "We are in a bad way if academics attack the academic standard of a thesis they did not examine and give the impression this is an issue about standards as if addressed by a neutral observer."[/b]

Alderman retorted by saying that Sizer's response was "pathetic. He should stop trying to personalize the issue."

I ask the reader to reread the previous paragraph, for it is a known Sharonian Likudnik technique in transferring the accusation to the other side. Alderman, in his Zionist extremism campaigned against Sizer then accused him - exactly as his "mentor" Ariel Sharon, who murders women and children, eats them if he could, then accuses the Palestinians of terrorism.

Since I am not a professor of theology, or any other field for that matter, I do not need to weigh my words. I believe that whoever supports Sharon the butcher becomes a partner in his crimes and the blood of women and children is on his hands.

This also applies to another British Zionist Melanie Philips, the well-known right-wing columnist and broadcaster.[One of her admirers is the heir to the British throne, Prince Charles]

Philips wrote in hostile fashion about Sizer. She wrote the cover story of The Spectator weekly magazine on February 16, 2004, entitled "Christians Who Hate the Jews," deploring the revival of "replacement theology." She attacked Riah Abu El-Assal (the Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem), Father Naim Ateek (director of the Sabeel Theology Center in Jerusalem), and David Ison (the Canon of Exeter and Bishop of Guildford).

I know Riah Abu El-Assal and his brother Rouhi since my adolescence, and I refuse to compare his, and other clergymen's, purity and Melanie Philips' dirtiness. I think of her the same I think of Geoffrey Alderman and the rest of religious and political extremist gang that encourages the neo-Nazi government in Israel and prevents peace with the Palestinians, although the majority of Jews in Israel and around the world has always asked for peace.

Philips attacked Sizer and described him as "a leading crusader against Christian Zionism." Sizer wrote a long letter to The Spectator editor in which he disagreed most strongly "with Melanie Philips' conclusion that I am anti-Semitic because of my theological views and specifically because I have been critical of policies of the Israeli government." Philips had phoned him ostensibly to gather information about Christian Zionism. "I attempted to provide a basic explanation of the movement and its beliefs. At no time did I appreciate that her article would actually be addressing the issue of anti-Semitism."

I see Israel as racist state practicing apartheid. Perhaps even more with war criminal Ariel Sharon as a Prime Minister, and fanatical apologists on both sides of the Atlantic covering up the Sharon government's crimes and encouraging it to commit more of them.

However, the subject of this series is Christian Zionists and their influence on U.S. foreign policy. I conclude just as I started; President George W. Bush shares their beliefs. They are his electoral base. He practices (on us) the policy of faith, not information and analysis; i.e. a "divine policy." Nevertheless, he is better than all of them. He never wronged Islam or Muslims. He differentiated between the peaceful Muslim majority and the terrorist minority; just as we differentiate between the peaceful Jewish majority and the fanatic minority.

I think I read much on Christian Zionists until I was influenced by their thought. I believe that the situation in the Middle East will worsen, because of them, before it gets better… that is if it does.


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[Moses]

Brownback's Speech


The Jewish Press prints an edited version of the address delivered by Sen. Sam Brownback (R-KS) in Jerusalem on July 19 before a Knesset group:

Since my earliest memories growing up on a farm in Kansas in the heartland of America, I have read and studied and been taught about the people of Israel.

I was raised and steeped in the Bible while growing up. Ancient Israel was, and is, a living reality in my home. Its spirituality, wisdom, poetry, its majesty inspired and encouraged me all my life. You have helped form my soul and I thank you for it.

The bedrock of support for Israel in America today is comprised of Christians, like myself, who were raised on the Bible, and who see in the Jews of Israel today the inheritors of the tradition of ancient Israel. . . .

As a Christian, I thank you for my faith that is rooted in yours. And as a Christian, I deeply, deeply apologize for the pain and bloodshed and deafness to suffering that we have hoisted upon you and your ancestors. May this never, ever happen again.

Our past and our present and our futures are intertwined together. . . . Thank you and God bless you.



Sen. Brownback serves on the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations and serves as international Co-President of The Jerusalem Summit, with Knesset Member Dr. Yuri Shtern, U.S. Professor Daniel Pipes and Bar Ilan University President Prof. Moshe Kaveh.

The speech, which received significant media coverage in Israel, is worth reading in its entirety.

[Moses]

Standing Steadfast With Israel
Posted 7/28/2004
By Sen. Sam Brownback

Editor’s Note: The following is an edited version of an address delivered by Sen. Brownback (R-KS) to the Knesset’s Christian Allies Caucus in Jerusalem on July 19.

Since my earliest memories growing up on a farm in Kansas in the heartland of America, I have read and studied and been taught about the people of Israel. I was raised and steeped in the Bible while growing up. Ancient Israel was, and is, a living reality in my home. Its spirituality, wisdom, poetry, its majesty inspired and encouraged me all my life. You have helped form my soul and I thank you for it.

The bedrock of support for Israel in America today is comprised of Christians, like myself, who were raised on the Bible, and who see in the Jews of Israel today the inheritors of the tradition of ancient Israel. I`ve had the great joy of seeing modem Israel, the living spirit of its past. Israel`s chain of history and its will to survive with purpose and meaning is a true miracle.

I have been to Israel several times. The last time I was in Israel, I looked out the window of my hotel and saw the flag of Israel with the Star of David and the thought entered my mind, "God does keep His promises!" That flag which had been absent in this land for nearly 2,000 years was now flying again. What an awesome God we serve.

Yet it is another cause that draws me here today — that of peace and reconciliation. We`re living in a critical time of history. The war for Western civilization — and our very way of life — is being fought not only in Baghdad and Kabul, but it is being fought in Jerusalem as well, and has been for a long time. This battle pits democracy against totalitarianism. It pits freedom against subjugation. It pits a culture that values life against a culture willing to throw it away without remorse or regret.

While the global war on terrorism is our common cause now, peace and reconciliation are our objectives. Through time immemorial, the people of Israel have simply sought and taught of peace, of a time when swords would be beaten into plowshares, and children would be taught war no more. When the lion would lay down with the lamb and there would be no more tears. Peace and truth go together. We must speak of peace with all who embrace peace and speak the truth about those who do not. Evil must be identified for what it is and once so exposed, it becomes weak and ultimately falls.

That is the lesson of Ronald Reagan, when he called the Soviet Union an evil empire. It was an evil empire. Reagan called it as he saw it, because it was the truth. And once exposed for what it really was, it fell. That is the lesson of the Axis of Evil. It is. And it will fall.

God is not neutral in the affairs of man. He is on the side of justice. Terrorism is evil and must be rejected by all civilized people and every nation. Terrorism terrorizes the innocent, is practiced on the vulnerable and is a tool only of dark souls. It must be confronted and renounced by all humanity.

I encourage all nations to embrace the longings of their own people and give them the right to select their own leaders. What a difference that would make. Leaders responding to the yearnings of their own people rather than the blind lust of power. While democracy is not perfect, it certainly is preferable to any other form of government known to man.

Now let me speak directly to the people of Israel. I love you, and the people of America love you. We love the values you have given us that cost you so much to protect for thousands of years. We love your spirit of determination and calling. We love your heart`s desire for peace.

Another fact that is true and bears telling is that Israel has the right of self-determination and self-defense. It has the right to build a security fence to protect its own people from terrorists. This is a country that was justly founded and that, since its conception, has been continually attacked from within and without. No other nation and no other people have shared the history that you have lived through. You have survived despite countless threats and designs against you.

We stand with you and all peace-loving people, now and forever. We revere Jerusalem — your capital, your only capital throughout history, and what will remain your capital. It is time, past time, for America to move our embassy to Jerusalem, and to recognize by this act that Jerusalem, undivided, is the capital of Israel.

We ask you to never walk away from the lessons your ancestors carried with so much courage against such overwhelming odds. Lessons they have passed down through the generations for all of us in the world today. Lessons of God`s favor and where his wrath lies, of what is good and just, and what is evil and destructive. If your nation, in the culture wars of today, embraces relativism, redefines right and wrong, good and evil, many will be led astray.

As a member of the United States Senate, my message to you today is to be encouraged. We are with you. We are with you as your allies in this war against terrorism. We are with you in the United Nations. We are with you as your friends as a wave of anti-Israel and anti-Semitic rhetoric is once again on the rise.
I thank you for bringing the message of God to a world that did not know Him. And for continuing to carry that message in the face of thousands of years of persecution, suffering and death.
As a Christian, I thank you for my faith that is rooted in yours. And as a Christian, I deeply, deeply apologize for the pain and bloodshed and deafness to suffering that we have hoisted upon you and your ancestors. May this never, ever happen again.
Our past and our present and our futures are intertwined together. So, in my parting, I pray for Israel. That in this season of ingathering you will be a blessing to all nations. That you will be a Holy Nation. A nation of the righteous leading the world in righteousness. It is your duty and destiny. And when you do your duty, the rest of us will be blessed and able to do ours. Thank you and God bless you.

Sam Brownback, Republican of Kansas, was first elected to the U.S. Senate in 1996.

[Moses]

Jerusalem Summit Greetings to Senator Brownback

Ladies and Gentlemen,

We have a privilege and honor to welcome today in Jerusalem one of the greatest friends of Israel and of this Holy city, an outstanding leader of the great American nation, chairman of the Senate's East Asia and Pacific affairs subcommittee, chairman of the Science, Technology and Space subcommittee, Senator Sam Brownback.

Recently Senator Brownback honored us by accepting the co-Presidency of the Jerusalem Summit, an international forum of Israel's allies, whose slogan is Building Peace on Truth.

For me this slogan perfectly describes Senator Brownback's public service.

Standing for Truth is at the core of all his efforts in the multitude of issues he is involved in as a chairman of several highly important subcommittees.

His voice of moral clarity is heard and appreciated by millions of people: from his home state of Kansas to Washington DC, from Iran, in support of whose dissidents Senator raised his voice on the Congressional floor, to Sudan, whose forgotten genocide Senator recently put on a global agenda by introducing a legislation calling for immediate action there.

But I don't think that anywhere else does his voice have the resonance as it does here in Jerusalem.

Senator Brownback called for hearings on the Oslo Accords.

Senator Brownback introduced a resolution expressing Congressional opposition to the unilateral declaration of a Palestinian state.

Senator Brownback repeatedly called upon the Clinton Administration and the current Administration to recognize Jerusalem as the rightful capital of Israel.

Senator Brownback drafted the Jerusalem Resolution that would move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem three months prior to the establishment of any Palestinian State and declare that Jerusalem is the undivided capital of Israel.

After the outbreak of the last intifada that we in Israel call "the Oslo war", Senator Brownback asked President Bush to reassess US relations with the Palestinians.

These are just a few examples from many, many efforts made by Senator Brownback on behalf of the state of Israel and its capital Jerusalem.

In appreciation of his tireless efforts, we would like to present the Senator with a modest gift: a shofar.

But before that, just a couple of words about the symbolism of the shofar.

As you know, Mr. Senator, this is a ritual ram's horn which is blown on Rosh ha-Shana, a Jewish New Year. The sound of Shofar calls on people to wake up from their spiritual slumber, to repent and to return to the ways of Truth.

That's what your voice is doing in public life, especially regarding the issue of Israel: it calls to repent for the lies and crimes committed against it and to recognize the Truth of the Bible and the Truth of the restored Jewish state.

There is another meaning of Shofar. Besides the Rosh ha-Shana, the shofar was used by ancient Israelites to call the men for battle. Your voice is doing just that: it calls on the United States and on all the people of moral clarity to wake up and to face the battle against the new global threat: terrorism of the militant Islam.

Dear Senator: may your voice be heard around the globe for many, many years, and may it always sound the clearest in undivided Jerusalem, a city that loves you and welcomes you as its own.


 <br>

[karpomrx]

Overwhelming.
Can one even try to talk to people that believe that they are guided by the hand of God?
I do envy the spiritual comfort that the fanatic, of any stripe, enjoys.I pity them for their fear of freedom, for it is all we have to separate us from the machine.

[POA]

karpomrx said:

Overwhelming.
Can one even try to talk to people that believe that they are guided by the hand of God?
I do envy the spiritual comfort that the fanatic, of any stripe, enjoys.I pity them for their fear of freedom, for it is all we have to separate us from the machine.

I don't really think you can reach them. Physically, you can commit yourself to the action of talking, but I don't think anything that any of us could say will sink in if they're already dug in deep.

Perhaps getting ourselves away from them (separation in some sense) is the only fragment of peace we'll ever have.

[Moses]

Did you see the article by the Ohio State Prof analysing the psycho pathology of the "Born Again" Fundamentalists? (And their fellows of the Old Catholic Church). It really is illluminating as to the nature of their psychopathology, and its danger to all of us, as they project their "split" on the world, must feed their "born againness" in a manic way, are really worshippers/lovers of Thanitos(sP?) at war with themselves (they regard as their former selves) and they bring this war to the world. The basis of their psyche is hate -- I don't understand the complexity of it, and have been discussing it with better minds, and it all makes sense. They aren't just people who happen to believe a different kind of religion, they are psychopaths who have shut their minds down in the service of -- shutting their mind down and taking responsibility for themselves -- for their self.

I'll try to post Nana's link here.

But they really have brain damage, you could say-- they aren't really human in a way-- their brains are different and bifurcated. They really are like really sick automatons. No you can't reason with them, because they no longer have the capacity for reason. Or rather they operate out of limited parts of their brain.

[Moses]

Nana's link to the article on the Psychology of Christian Fundamentalists.

I intend to re-read it myself, as it is complex-- but I find it to be illuminating a true based on my interactions with them.

They need to be understood as psychopaths, not a religious believers.

Literalism is their creed (but they skip the New Testament and insist on the literal truth of the Old Testament and the discredited "Book of Revelations". Why?

The world is divided, to them, between those who believe in their cult and those who don't -- between their former selves, and their "new" "saved" selves.

[Moses]

In contrast, e.g., to these fundamentalists, Sherwood Anderson has on his grave, which is in the shape of a sail: "Life, not Death, is the Great Adventure". (He seems to be refuting Barrie and others).

In addition, McCann's essay about his liver transplant, he asks, what about after the miracle has subsided and the realities of life start creeping back in? (Don't have the essay have to go by memory) -- these people try to keep the manic experience of the "miracle" going every minute, and need to fuel it constantly.

[nana]

But they really have brain damage, you could say-- they aren't really human in a way-- their brains are different and bifurcated. They really are like really sick automatons. No you can't reason with them, because they no longer have the capacity for reason. Or rather they operate out of limited parts of their brain.

I'd suggest that what these people really lack is heart and soul. Caring, compassion, respect, courtesy, consideration, love, kindness, empathy, all the qualities of heart and soul.

What they are is brains sitting on top of hollow shells of greed trying to fill the emptiness within by the accumulation of more and more 'wealth' and that is an endless and futile quest.

The more they acquire the hungrier they get.

[nana]

When any group or government or political party or religion or even any person manages to convince themselves and others that they are chosen by God or Allah or 'The Great Cosmic Is' or whatever name they apply to their version of an ultimate Divine Being, and that Being has favourites, and that only they are doing that Being's bidding, with that Being's blessing and even acting on that Being's direct orders, the old 'Master Race mentality' sets in and it really makes no diiference what name or label is applied to this new 'Master Race' the mind-set and the outcome is ultimately murder.

And when that group of human beings believes that they are better or holier or more Godly than any other group of human beings the worst atrocities are inevitable because they begin to perceive others as not really being other human beings like themselves, not really God's children like themselves.

It's even worse when the political party currently in power aligns and even merges itself with rabid, fanatic fundamentalist versions of the majority religion. Then the government becomes as infallable to its followers as they believe their religion to be. Their politicians are to be obeyed and worshipped as divinely appointed prophets with the power of life and death over everyone, especially those who do not believe as they do.

The elected or selected officials, instead of serving their constituents, begin to act as if they are divinely appointed to dictate to their people instead of serving them. They become the masters, the people become their puppets, their serfs, their property and they assume power over every aspect of everyone's life because they are "RIGHT", they are doing (their version of) God's work and the ends justify the means.

The problem is the God they perceive is a mirror image of themselves. They create their God in their own image who is as petty and vindictive and mean-spirited and greedy and viscious and tyranical as they are and then try to sell this creation as a Loving God?!.

As Thomas Paine said: "Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man."

I am personally, sofa king fed up with these nasty little spoiled brats in the sand box saying: "I'm better than you are, my God's better than your God, my way's better than your way" .... and then killing 10s of thousands of people to 'prove' it.

[Moses]

If I am not mistaken, one of the major problems w/ the fundamentalist Christians and their insistance on constructing a belief in the so-called "literal" "interpretation" of "the Bible" is their belief in the certainty of human certainty about divinity -- and therefore, everything.

This strikes me as hubris, and also a complete lack of true faith. If one insists on construction of fact to prove one's religious beliefs, is it then faith?

But when you see people like Brownback, who are so certain -- beware. Thoughout human history, this hubris has led to tragedy.

[nana]

Good point Moses

and btw, i must say reading and responding to someone named Moses about religious topics brings me no end of smiles and some very satisfying giggles. These days any break in the bleak landscape is very welcome.

Thanks!

[Moses]

heh heh. Now about those 10 commandments-- I wish these so-called Christians would read them and take them to heart rather than violate them by worshiping graven images of them.