Post by RPankn on Aug 15, 2005 5:08:35 GMT -5
I wonder if SC will take down the link to her petition on its website now that she's mentioned AIPAC and Bolo's beloved neocons.
August 15, 2005
'The Stakes Are Too High for Us to Stop Fighting Now'
An interview with FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds
by Christopher Deliso
balkanalysis.com
In this brand new interview conducted last week, we find the indefatigable Sibel Edmonds as spirited as ever and determined to press on with her legal cases, in her attempt to alert the American people of high-level criminal behavior and corruption in and around the U.S. government.
The interview concentrates on her new appeal to the Supreme Court, reactions to the recent Vanity Fair article in which she was featured, some thoughts on the AIPAC-Larry Franklin investigation, more details on high-level global criminal activities – and on what kind of officials are involved in them.
Current Developments: Petitioning the Supreme Court
Christopher Deliso: It's nice to talk with you again, Sibel. A lot has happened since we last spoke, for the first Antiwar.com interview last July. What's the latest on your case?
Sibel Edmonds: Well, now we are trying to get the Supreme Court to take my case. My lawyers and the ACLU are trying, and we have had several meetings about this.
CD: Do you think they will they agree to hear the case?
SE: You know, I'm not very optimistic. They take less than 10 percent of the cases that are requested of them, maybe 75-100 cases they take. And look at the make-up of the current Supreme Court – it's tilting towards the Bush administration. But my lawyers are more optimistic.
CD: If they reject your case, are they obliged to tell you why, from a legal point of view, or otherwise?
SE: As far as I understand, sometimes they do, other times no. They can just say, "sorry we refuse." And that's it.
CD: Now, I understand that it's an involved process, but do you have any established timeline for when we can expect to hear yea or nay?
SE: The Supreme Court will decide whether to take the case or not in mid-October. But in the meantime, the government – that is, the DOJ and FBI – will file their response to our Supreme Court petition by the first week of September.
Further, we'll also be getting an amicus filing in support of our Supreme Court petition from 9/11 family groups, government watchdog organizations like POGO, GAP, the Center for Constitutional Rights, and more. This will all take place in early September too. So things are going to be getting busy pretty soon!
CD: Wow, it will be exciting for us to watch it all unfold. But tell me, what if the Supremos refuse to take the case? Then what?
SE: If that happens, not only this suit but all my other cases will be dead – the State Secrets Act will kill them all together.
CD: Then what?
SE: We will have to consider other options.
CD: Aha! Evasive action?
SE: There's a chance we could try for an independent prosecutor, and an open hearing about these issues –
CD: Like another "Bulldog" Fitzgerald, you mean?
SE: Yes, perhaps. We have to continue until there is some accountability and the American people know what kinds of things their elected officials are involving themselves [in] again – things directly contrary to national security.
The Media: Barking Up the Wrong Tree
CD: Well, I don't know if we can say a critical mass has been reached, but you are appearing more and more frequently in the media, and I think people are starting to take notice of whistleblower cases like yours. Just the other day there was the story about the Pentagon procurement whistleblower criticizing Halliburton, after all.
SE: Yes, okay, but the media is focusing on the wrong angle of these stories – especially concerning my case.
CD: How's that?
SE: They are focusing too much on the whistleblower angle and not enough on the state secrets one. They're saying, "oh, look at the poor whistleblower, she lost her job for coming forward." That's not important. The important thing is, why are they using this State Secrets Act – which has almost never been used? What are they trying to hide?
CD: I see.
SE: I mean, come on, I wasn't some big diplomat or official or secret agent or something – I was just a lowly translator! So what could possibly be so dangerous about letting me speak? Why are they covering this up?
You know, I found out the other day that there has been no person in the history of the United States to have had as many gag orders as I have. So when I say I am the most gagged person in history, I mean it. They are terrified of letting me speak, and just why they might be terrified – well, this is what the media should be concentrating on, not that the poor whistleblower got fired.
CD: So can you tell me, if the State Secrets Act is wheeled out so rarely, why did they have to use it? Wasn't there a less drastic measure they could have taken to prevent you from talking?
SE: Yes, and do you know what is the ironic thing about this? If there had been an ongoing investigation, all they'd have to do is say so! To shut me up, all they needed to do would have been to go into the court and say, "Judge, you can't let her speak because we have an ongoing investigating into these things she wants to talk about." That's all!
CD: So the point is –
SE: The point is, there was no ongoing investigation! They decided to block all investigations! They could have quieted me very easily from the beginning – but that would have meant they were taking my allegations seriously –
CD: And thus you wouldn't have had to make them in the first place, if they were already being investigated.
SE: Exactly! Very paradoxical. They had all the info – detailed information, names, and everything else, so they can really launch an investigation. What are they waiting for? But they are not interested. And because they refuse to investigate – their only remaining option to silence me is this "State Secrets" nonsense.
CD: That's an interesting way to look at it. I was not aware of that procedural difference. So considering that the congressmen you testified before agreed that you were credible and raised serious concerns, why have there been no investigations?
SE: The fact that there are no investigations – I will give you an analogy, okay? Say if we decided to have a "war on drugs," but said in the beginning, "right, we're only going to go after the young black guys on the street level." Hey, we already have tens of thousands of them in our jails anyway, why not a few more? But we decided never to go after the middle levels, let alone the top levels…
It's like this with the so-called war on terror. We go for the Attas and Hamdis – but never touch the guys on the top.
CD: You think they [the government] know who they are, the top guys, and where?
SE: Oh yeah, they know.
CD: So why don't they get them?
SE: It's like I told you before – this would upset "certain foreign relations." But it would also expose certain of our elected officials, who have significant connections with high-level drugs- and weapons-smuggling – and thus with the criminal underground, even with the terrorists themselves.
Renewed Scrutiny
CD: On that note, why don't we discuss the recent Vanity Fair article in which your case was discussed. This is the first time any possible official associated with illicit activities related to your case was named. The author cites sources familiar with your testimony and speculates that Dennis Hastert took bribes to squash the Armenian genocide resolution –
SE: You know, that was such a surprise to me. I had no idea what the final article would look like, but when I opened the magazine and read this – well, it was a surprise.
CD: Why?
SE: Look, if you read the article you will see they mentioned that there were several other officials suspected of crimes. It's interesting because they mentioned the Department of State and the DOD – but they didn't get into it.
CD: And maybe some of these others were more important than Hastert?
SE: Of course they were more important! But they went with the Armenian angle.
CD: Now, I understand because of your gag order, you were not the one giving the author his information. He was getting it from the other sources familiar with your testimony. So maybe this angle they took seemed like the most important because they didn't have all the facts –
SE: I really don't know.
A Pyrrhic Victory?
CD: So what have been the initial reactions to this article? I don't think Hastert was particularly fazed. He said something like, "Next they'll blame me for the Brad Pitt-Jennifer Aniston breakup."
SE: Well, it's caused more problems for me than for him, obviously. I have been getting some very angry letters from Turkish people – now they think I'm an agent of the Armenian lobby! And so of course this guy from the ATC, [American-Turkish Council President James] Holmes, played on this. Because some of my allegations involved the ATC, he loved getting a chance to blacken me as some Armenian collaborator in the Turkish media – and at the same time made up outrageous claims, such as that the government investigated my claims and decided that I was lying about everything. So now I'm hated in Turkey.
CD: That's crazy. But doesn't the media there know any better? I mean, haven't they been focusing on your case for a long time?
SE: Yes, but for people with power and prestige such as Holmes, it's easy to smear someone. As you know, sensitivities are very strong for both Turks and Armenians on this issue. So ironically even if it [Hastert's alleged bribe-taking and the Armenian genocide issue] was just a sidebar to the real focus of my case, by connecting my name with the Hastert allegations, it just damaged my credibility for Turks everywhere.
CD: This sounds like an absolute disaster.
SE: And it's just too bad, because none of this [my allegations] has to do with the current government in Turkey.
CD: So do you mean the previous one was more corrupted, or involved with these issues?
SE: I didn't say that. I just said that the current Turkish government had nothing to do with any of these illegal activities I documented. But still the campaign against me goes on in the media in Turkey. It's very sad.
Who's in Charge Here?
CD: That's terrible. I have some thoughts based on what you just said, but first let's talk about something else. For us on the outside, it is very hard to know what is really going on in the government. And with all of the governmental manipulation and deceit that things like your case, as well as the whole Iraq War deception, show, critical people have come to suspect that the government is more often than not feeding us lies and working in our worst interests. And you talk about good, honest agents as well as bad and criminal ones.
So, that said – how can we explain the case of Larry Franklin?
SE: Do you mean how the case came about, or how it is being conducted?
CD: I want to say this: the Turkish lobby might be powerful, but the Israeli lobby is by far the most powerful in Washington, at least with the current administration. So considering that the pro-Israel neocons are in power, how was it possible that this AIPAC investigation – which apparently started way back in 1999 – could have continued all these years, and didn't end up getting squashed like your investigation was?
SE: I don't know. But it will be interesting to see how far they pursue it – whether they will be satisfied just to make an example out of the fairly low-level guys they're looking at now, or want to keep going higher.
CD: When you were at the FBI, did you have any colleagues who were working on this case, investigating the Israelis?
SE: Look, I think that that [the AIPAC investigation] ultimately involves more than just Israelis – I am talking about countries, not a single country here. Because despite however it may appear, this is not just a simple matter of state espionage. If Fitzgerald and his team keep pulling, really pulling, they are going to reel in much more than just a few guys spying for Israel.
CD: A monster, 600-pound catfish, huh? So the Turkish and Israeli investigations had some overlap?
SE: Essentially, there is only one investigation – a very big one, an all-inclusive one. Completely by chance, I, a lowly translator, stumbled over one piece of it.
But I can tell you there are a lot of people involved, a lot of ranking officials, and a lot of illegal activities that include multi-billion-dollar drug-smuggling operations, black-market nuclear sales to terrorists and unsavory regimes, you name it. And of course a lot of people from abroad are involved. It's massive. So to do this investigation, to really do it, they will have to look into everything.
[Continued in next post]
August 15, 2005
'The Stakes Are Too High for Us to Stop Fighting Now'
An interview with FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds
by Christopher Deliso
balkanalysis.com
In this brand new interview conducted last week, we find the indefatigable Sibel Edmonds as spirited as ever and determined to press on with her legal cases, in her attempt to alert the American people of high-level criminal behavior and corruption in and around the U.S. government.
The interview concentrates on her new appeal to the Supreme Court, reactions to the recent Vanity Fair article in which she was featured, some thoughts on the AIPAC-Larry Franklin investigation, more details on high-level global criminal activities – and on what kind of officials are involved in them.
Current Developments: Petitioning the Supreme Court
Christopher Deliso: It's nice to talk with you again, Sibel. A lot has happened since we last spoke, for the first Antiwar.com interview last July. What's the latest on your case?
Sibel Edmonds: Well, now we are trying to get the Supreme Court to take my case. My lawyers and the ACLU are trying, and we have had several meetings about this.
CD: Do you think they will they agree to hear the case?
SE: You know, I'm not very optimistic. They take less than 10 percent of the cases that are requested of them, maybe 75-100 cases they take. And look at the make-up of the current Supreme Court – it's tilting towards the Bush administration. But my lawyers are more optimistic.
CD: If they reject your case, are they obliged to tell you why, from a legal point of view, or otherwise?
SE: As far as I understand, sometimes they do, other times no. They can just say, "sorry we refuse." And that's it.
CD: Now, I understand that it's an involved process, but do you have any established timeline for when we can expect to hear yea or nay?
SE: The Supreme Court will decide whether to take the case or not in mid-October. But in the meantime, the government – that is, the DOJ and FBI – will file their response to our Supreme Court petition by the first week of September.
Further, we'll also be getting an amicus filing in support of our Supreme Court petition from 9/11 family groups, government watchdog organizations like POGO, GAP, the Center for Constitutional Rights, and more. This will all take place in early September too. So things are going to be getting busy pretty soon!
CD: Wow, it will be exciting for us to watch it all unfold. But tell me, what if the Supremos refuse to take the case? Then what?
SE: If that happens, not only this suit but all my other cases will be dead – the State Secrets Act will kill them all together.
CD: Then what?
SE: We will have to consider other options.
CD: Aha! Evasive action?
SE: There's a chance we could try for an independent prosecutor, and an open hearing about these issues –
CD: Like another "Bulldog" Fitzgerald, you mean?
SE: Yes, perhaps. We have to continue until there is some accountability and the American people know what kinds of things their elected officials are involving themselves [in] again – things directly contrary to national security.
The Media: Barking Up the Wrong Tree
CD: Well, I don't know if we can say a critical mass has been reached, but you are appearing more and more frequently in the media, and I think people are starting to take notice of whistleblower cases like yours. Just the other day there was the story about the Pentagon procurement whistleblower criticizing Halliburton, after all.
SE: Yes, okay, but the media is focusing on the wrong angle of these stories – especially concerning my case.
CD: How's that?
SE: They are focusing too much on the whistleblower angle and not enough on the state secrets one. They're saying, "oh, look at the poor whistleblower, she lost her job for coming forward." That's not important. The important thing is, why are they using this State Secrets Act – which has almost never been used? What are they trying to hide?
CD: I see.
SE: I mean, come on, I wasn't some big diplomat or official or secret agent or something – I was just a lowly translator! So what could possibly be so dangerous about letting me speak? Why are they covering this up?
You know, I found out the other day that there has been no person in the history of the United States to have had as many gag orders as I have. So when I say I am the most gagged person in history, I mean it. They are terrified of letting me speak, and just why they might be terrified – well, this is what the media should be concentrating on, not that the poor whistleblower got fired.
CD: So can you tell me, if the State Secrets Act is wheeled out so rarely, why did they have to use it? Wasn't there a less drastic measure they could have taken to prevent you from talking?
SE: Yes, and do you know what is the ironic thing about this? If there had been an ongoing investigation, all they'd have to do is say so! To shut me up, all they needed to do would have been to go into the court and say, "Judge, you can't let her speak because we have an ongoing investigating into these things she wants to talk about." That's all!
CD: So the point is –
SE: The point is, there was no ongoing investigation! They decided to block all investigations! They could have quieted me very easily from the beginning – but that would have meant they were taking my allegations seriously –
CD: And thus you wouldn't have had to make them in the first place, if they were already being investigated.
SE: Exactly! Very paradoxical. They had all the info – detailed information, names, and everything else, so they can really launch an investigation. What are they waiting for? But they are not interested. And because they refuse to investigate – their only remaining option to silence me is this "State Secrets" nonsense.
CD: That's an interesting way to look at it. I was not aware of that procedural difference. So considering that the congressmen you testified before agreed that you were credible and raised serious concerns, why have there been no investigations?
SE: The fact that there are no investigations – I will give you an analogy, okay? Say if we decided to have a "war on drugs," but said in the beginning, "right, we're only going to go after the young black guys on the street level." Hey, we already have tens of thousands of them in our jails anyway, why not a few more? But we decided never to go after the middle levels, let alone the top levels…
It's like this with the so-called war on terror. We go for the Attas and Hamdis – but never touch the guys on the top.
CD: You think they [the government] know who they are, the top guys, and where?
SE: Oh yeah, they know.
CD: So why don't they get them?
SE: It's like I told you before – this would upset "certain foreign relations." But it would also expose certain of our elected officials, who have significant connections with high-level drugs- and weapons-smuggling – and thus with the criminal underground, even with the terrorists themselves.
Renewed Scrutiny
CD: On that note, why don't we discuss the recent Vanity Fair article in which your case was discussed. This is the first time any possible official associated with illicit activities related to your case was named. The author cites sources familiar with your testimony and speculates that Dennis Hastert took bribes to squash the Armenian genocide resolution –
SE: You know, that was such a surprise to me. I had no idea what the final article would look like, but when I opened the magazine and read this – well, it was a surprise.
CD: Why?
SE: Look, if you read the article you will see they mentioned that there were several other officials suspected of crimes. It's interesting because they mentioned the Department of State and the DOD – but they didn't get into it.
CD: And maybe some of these others were more important than Hastert?
SE: Of course they were more important! But they went with the Armenian angle.
CD: Now, I understand because of your gag order, you were not the one giving the author his information. He was getting it from the other sources familiar with your testimony. So maybe this angle they took seemed like the most important because they didn't have all the facts –
SE: I really don't know.
A Pyrrhic Victory?
CD: So what have been the initial reactions to this article? I don't think Hastert was particularly fazed. He said something like, "Next they'll blame me for the Brad Pitt-Jennifer Aniston breakup."
SE: Well, it's caused more problems for me than for him, obviously. I have been getting some very angry letters from Turkish people – now they think I'm an agent of the Armenian lobby! And so of course this guy from the ATC, [American-Turkish Council President James] Holmes, played on this. Because some of my allegations involved the ATC, he loved getting a chance to blacken me as some Armenian collaborator in the Turkish media – and at the same time made up outrageous claims, such as that the government investigated my claims and decided that I was lying about everything. So now I'm hated in Turkey.
CD: That's crazy. But doesn't the media there know any better? I mean, haven't they been focusing on your case for a long time?
SE: Yes, but for people with power and prestige such as Holmes, it's easy to smear someone. As you know, sensitivities are very strong for both Turks and Armenians on this issue. So ironically even if it [Hastert's alleged bribe-taking and the Armenian genocide issue] was just a sidebar to the real focus of my case, by connecting my name with the Hastert allegations, it just damaged my credibility for Turks everywhere.
CD: This sounds like an absolute disaster.
SE: And it's just too bad, because none of this [my allegations] has to do with the current government in Turkey.
CD: So do you mean the previous one was more corrupted, or involved with these issues?
SE: I didn't say that. I just said that the current Turkish government had nothing to do with any of these illegal activities I documented. But still the campaign against me goes on in the media in Turkey. It's very sad.
Who's in Charge Here?
CD: That's terrible. I have some thoughts based on what you just said, but first let's talk about something else. For us on the outside, it is very hard to know what is really going on in the government. And with all of the governmental manipulation and deceit that things like your case, as well as the whole Iraq War deception, show, critical people have come to suspect that the government is more often than not feeding us lies and working in our worst interests. And you talk about good, honest agents as well as bad and criminal ones.
So, that said – how can we explain the case of Larry Franklin?
SE: Do you mean how the case came about, or how it is being conducted?
CD: I want to say this: the Turkish lobby might be powerful, but the Israeli lobby is by far the most powerful in Washington, at least with the current administration. So considering that the pro-Israel neocons are in power, how was it possible that this AIPAC investigation – which apparently started way back in 1999 – could have continued all these years, and didn't end up getting squashed like your investigation was?
SE: I don't know. But it will be interesting to see how far they pursue it – whether they will be satisfied just to make an example out of the fairly low-level guys they're looking at now, or want to keep going higher.
CD: When you were at the FBI, did you have any colleagues who were working on this case, investigating the Israelis?
SE: Look, I think that that [the AIPAC investigation] ultimately involves more than just Israelis – I am talking about countries, not a single country here. Because despite however it may appear, this is not just a simple matter of state espionage. If Fitzgerald and his team keep pulling, really pulling, they are going to reel in much more than just a few guys spying for Israel.
CD: A monster, 600-pound catfish, huh? So the Turkish and Israeli investigations had some overlap?
SE: Essentially, there is only one investigation – a very big one, an all-inclusive one. Completely by chance, I, a lowly translator, stumbled over one piece of it.
But I can tell you there are a lot of people involved, a lot of ranking officials, and a lot of illegal activities that include multi-billion-dollar drug-smuggling operations, black-market nuclear sales to terrorists and unsavory regimes, you name it. And of course a lot of people from abroad are involved. It's massive. So to do this investigation, to really do it, they will have to look into everything.
[Continued in next post]