Post by RPankn on May 5, 2004 17:13:49 GMT -5
[But some think it's perfectly acceptable.]
By Mark Egan
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Many Americans are disgusted at the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. military in Baghdad but even as the scandal dominates the news, some question if such abuses are just part and parcel of the horror of war.
"If true, it is horrible, it is disgusting," Constance Wynne-Markham, 40, of Hastings, New York, said on Wednesday of graphic images of smiling Americans abusing Iraqi prisoners, first broadcast by CBS' "60 Minutes II" a week ago.
San Francisco immigration attorney Kathleen Black said she was concerned that the Bush administration had covered up the scandal after knowing about the abuses since January and that the images recalled the Vietnam War.
"It brings back memories of My Lai in Vietnam," Black said, referring to a 1968 massacre when U.S. troops razed a South Vietnam village, slaughtering hundreds of men, women and children, but which did not come to light for 18 months.
But while many people shared those reactions, many others sought reasons to explain the pictures of Iraqi prisoners stripped of clothing, humiliated and abused.
Some said the pictures could be part of a propaganda war or that the images might not tell the full story. Others said the abuse was despicable but paled compared to the murder of U.S. contractors, whose charred bodies were strung up from a Falluja bridge on March 31 by a cheering mob. [RPankn's note: This is the result of the failure of the U.S. media to report anything other than pro-Bush and neo-con propaganda. While no one deserves to be killed and have their body desecrated, even though the "contractors" were doing deplorable work as mercinaries, the major U.S. media failed to report that the group which claimed responsibility for these killings said they did so as revenge for Sharon's assassination of a Hamas leader.]
Engineer Mike Wallace of Santa Clara, California, does not condone the abuse but said, "We don't know the full story of what they did. These people could be murderers, scoundrels."
In Detroit, two co-workers summed up the disparate views.
"When you've got prisoners, don't try to humiliate them or torture them," said 43-year old Berry Samuel, taking a break from his maintenance work job. But his colleague Oscar Torres, 21, countered, "I think they deserved it. Those people are crazy over there. I'm voting for Bush. He's doing right." [RPankn's note: I'm afraid this speaks poorly for my generation. This is not the first time I have heard such a sentiment from another young person either and it bodes poorly for the future of this country. My generation has apparently been desensitized to violence -- in fact, some find it humourous -- and finds murder, death and mayhem as acceptable solutions in solving problems. The media, neo-cons and corporate, evangelical "Christians" have succeeded in their job of demonizing Arabs and Muslims in the public's mind as somehow less than human, which is probably why people like Mr. Torres find it acceptable to kill others who are not like "us." However, there is still no excuse for this mindset. If I grew up under a relatively similar set of experiences to Mr. Torres and am able to recognize that war is wrong and should never be the first option, and that even though I do not personally know the Iraqi people and have never been to their country, that they still derserve the same respect and dignity as I do, Torres is wrong, intellectually lazy and a poor example of an American.]
"WAR IS BRUTAL"
Harvey Shackman, 65, retired from the New York City Board of Education, said, "You don't know what is propaganda. There are always two sides to a story. War is brutal. You can't have a clean war, but there are rules."
Barbara McNagny, 70, a registered nurse from Rogersville, Missouri, said bluntly, "These people would tie us up by our fingernails if they could. I'm afraid if we don't scare them to death, they won't get in line." [RPankn's note: This is absolutely sick to be coming from a public school teacher and a nurse, a woman who purportedly dedicated her life to helping the sick and afflicted; are they sure her last name isn't Rachet? And I sure as hell wouldn't want Shackman teaching my children.]
With Amnesty International seeking an investigation of the abuses, one Dallas Morning News reader wrote to the newspaper, "I don't recall this group calling for any investigation into the burning and hanging of U.S. military contractors from a bridge in Falluja several weeks ago."
"If the humiliation of these prisoners results in the saving of one American military life, go to it," Derrel Norris of Wills Point, Texas, said in a letter published on Tuesday.
Many said the world's leading democracy should be held to the highest standard on human rights even if tempers fray following 558 U.S. military deaths in the war to date.
With week-long blanket media coverage of the scandal, the Bush administration sought to contain the fallout.
"I want to tell the people of the Middle East that the practices that took place in that prison are abhorrent and they don't represent America," President Bush (news - web sites) told Dubai-based Al Arabiya television on Wednesday.
But some like Gregory Brown, 37, a bank employee from Chicago, were concerned that the Bush administration's effort to win the war of ideas was too little too late.
"The repercussions are that there will probably be more bombings" against U.S. interests, he said, adding that the photos will enrage religious Muslims. "I don't think a 'forgive us' will do because it's a very embarrassing scene."
Newspapers across the nation denounced the behavior displayed in the pictures. In a Wednesday editorial, The New York Times lamented that, "The most enduring images of the occupation may be those pictures of grinning American soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners."
(Additional reporting by Ken Barry in New York, Jon Herskovitz in Dallas, Daniel Sorid and Leonard Anderson in San Francisco, Brad Dorfman in Chicago, Michael Ellis in Detroit)
Link: story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040505/us_nm/iraq_abuse_americans_dc&cid=1896&ncid=1480
By Mark Egan
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Many Americans are disgusted at the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. military in Baghdad but even as the scandal dominates the news, some question if such abuses are just part and parcel of the horror of war.
"If true, it is horrible, it is disgusting," Constance Wynne-Markham, 40, of Hastings, New York, said on Wednesday of graphic images of smiling Americans abusing Iraqi prisoners, first broadcast by CBS' "60 Minutes II" a week ago.
San Francisco immigration attorney Kathleen Black said she was concerned that the Bush administration had covered up the scandal after knowing about the abuses since January and that the images recalled the Vietnam War.
"It brings back memories of My Lai in Vietnam," Black said, referring to a 1968 massacre when U.S. troops razed a South Vietnam village, slaughtering hundreds of men, women and children, but which did not come to light for 18 months.
But while many people shared those reactions, many others sought reasons to explain the pictures of Iraqi prisoners stripped of clothing, humiliated and abused.
Some said the pictures could be part of a propaganda war or that the images might not tell the full story. Others said the abuse was despicable but paled compared to the murder of U.S. contractors, whose charred bodies were strung up from a Falluja bridge on March 31 by a cheering mob. [RPankn's note: This is the result of the failure of the U.S. media to report anything other than pro-Bush and neo-con propaganda. While no one deserves to be killed and have their body desecrated, even though the "contractors" were doing deplorable work as mercinaries, the major U.S. media failed to report that the group which claimed responsibility for these killings said they did so as revenge for Sharon's assassination of a Hamas leader.]
Engineer Mike Wallace of Santa Clara, California, does not condone the abuse but said, "We don't know the full story of what they did. These people could be murderers, scoundrels."
In Detroit, two co-workers summed up the disparate views.
"When you've got prisoners, don't try to humiliate them or torture them," said 43-year old Berry Samuel, taking a break from his maintenance work job. But his colleague Oscar Torres, 21, countered, "I think they deserved it. Those people are crazy over there. I'm voting for Bush. He's doing right." [RPankn's note: I'm afraid this speaks poorly for my generation. This is not the first time I have heard such a sentiment from another young person either and it bodes poorly for the future of this country. My generation has apparently been desensitized to violence -- in fact, some find it humourous -- and finds murder, death and mayhem as acceptable solutions in solving problems. The media, neo-cons and corporate, evangelical "Christians" have succeeded in their job of demonizing Arabs and Muslims in the public's mind as somehow less than human, which is probably why people like Mr. Torres find it acceptable to kill others who are not like "us." However, there is still no excuse for this mindset. If I grew up under a relatively similar set of experiences to Mr. Torres and am able to recognize that war is wrong and should never be the first option, and that even though I do not personally know the Iraqi people and have never been to their country, that they still derserve the same respect and dignity as I do, Torres is wrong, intellectually lazy and a poor example of an American.]
"WAR IS BRUTAL"
Harvey Shackman, 65, retired from the New York City Board of Education, said, "You don't know what is propaganda. There are always two sides to a story. War is brutal. You can't have a clean war, but there are rules."
Barbara McNagny, 70, a registered nurse from Rogersville, Missouri, said bluntly, "These people would tie us up by our fingernails if they could. I'm afraid if we don't scare them to death, they won't get in line." [RPankn's note: This is absolutely sick to be coming from a public school teacher and a nurse, a woman who purportedly dedicated her life to helping the sick and afflicted; are they sure her last name isn't Rachet? And I sure as hell wouldn't want Shackman teaching my children.]
With Amnesty International seeking an investigation of the abuses, one Dallas Morning News reader wrote to the newspaper, "I don't recall this group calling for any investigation into the burning and hanging of U.S. military contractors from a bridge in Falluja several weeks ago."
"If the humiliation of these prisoners results in the saving of one American military life, go to it," Derrel Norris of Wills Point, Texas, said in a letter published on Tuesday.
Many said the world's leading democracy should be held to the highest standard on human rights even if tempers fray following 558 U.S. military deaths in the war to date.
With week-long blanket media coverage of the scandal, the Bush administration sought to contain the fallout.
"I want to tell the people of the Middle East that the practices that took place in that prison are abhorrent and they don't represent America," President Bush (news - web sites) told Dubai-based Al Arabiya television on Wednesday.
But some like Gregory Brown, 37, a bank employee from Chicago, were concerned that the Bush administration's effort to win the war of ideas was too little too late.
"The repercussions are that there will probably be more bombings" against U.S. interests, he said, adding that the photos will enrage religious Muslims. "I don't think a 'forgive us' will do because it's a very embarrassing scene."
Newspapers across the nation denounced the behavior displayed in the pictures. In a Wednesday editorial, The New York Times lamented that, "The most enduring images of the occupation may be those pictures of grinning American soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners."
(Additional reporting by Ken Barry in New York, Jon Herskovitz in Dallas, Daniel Sorid and Leonard Anderson in San Francisco, Brad Dorfman in Chicago, Michael Ellis in Detroit)
Link: story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040505/us_nm/iraq_abuse_americans_dc&cid=1896&ncid=1480
