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Post by Ropegun on Feb 12, 2005 13:21:29 GMT -5
But Moses, this is not a new thing, and it certainly predates the last 50 years.
Trace christianity's actions in regards to how they've treated others outside of their worldview back as far as you like and you'll see a trend. The trend is manipulation and subjugation, and sometimes even genocide for those who dared resist.
On the political end, christianity has pushed itself to the fore almost since it's inception, and again, with grave consequences for those who have opposed them.
The cult wants its power and will do anything it has to to get and keep it. This is a historical fact.
As for christians using the reptillian brain, I don't think it's exclusive to them. I think most people find it far easier to be led than to lead. There is less risk, no problems of conscience, no worries about popularity or any of that. To lead, one must risk all of this and more. This is why decent leaders are exhalted so much.
But being gamed, that is the christain political system. Take a good look at TBN or Daystar some time. The whole purpose of those networks is to generate money. Look at the freaks that run TBN, Paul and Jan Crouch. And their son Matt as well. These people live like absolute corporate pigs. In '98, Matt Crouch bought a house, and spent $150,000 just remodeling the kitchen. These people are all about the cash. I cannot begin to tell you the hypocracy I've seen at those churches. And what is truly scary to me is that even after the likes of Benny Hinn are exposed as outright frauds and liars, after Swaggart gets caught with a hooker, and all the other scandals, nobody cares. They've forgiven their leaders. However, without money, if you transgress, you are shunned. Look at Pat Boone, who I would speculate to generate far less income for the TBN syndicate. Money talks.
Which brings us back to our political issues.
Since these people have such funds, they are on the order of major corporations in this country, and as a lobby group, they have alot of ears bent their way. Even if the baptists disagree with the assemblies of dog on a smaller issue, they both get what they want on stuff like gay marriage, prayer in school, and political leaders who support their worldview. They have organization down, and they know about building alliances. There is no real competition for ideas in this arena, as they all basically subscribe to the same views. The minutia may differ, but the basic tenets are the same. Even for the catholics.
And we have a very vidible and celebritized leadership amongst that christians too. They all spout the same things. Things like, "we must support Israel unconditionally or we will will be outside of dogs will and will perish as a nation". These are the same folks counting on the rapture and armageddon. The are the Dobsons, and the Falwells, and the Robertsons, and the Buchanans. All celebrities amongst fundies. All wealthy. All with access to the president, and all with the ability to make policy.
These are the people to watch. These are the people that scare me, because of the control that they have.
Sorry for my disjointed discussion. This whole thing has pretty much been stream of thought and as such, meanders a bit.
Peace
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Post by Moses on Feb 12, 2005 13:44:02 GMT -5
Yes, but looked at from a Christian point of view, that is, if one stands ones ground theologically, and sticks like glue to Jesus himself, the "Christian" religion that has been organized in this way isn't "Christian" at all.
Before they were politically involved, or, rather, during periods when they were not politically involved, it didnt matter. They can believe what they want.
BUT, when the Catholic Church, e.g., gets involved politically, as they did to oppose women voting, as they did to support slavery, as they are doing now to force women to bear children, then one must go after them, manno-a- manno, in terms of their theology, and their right to make the claims they do. (While knowingly harboring child predators and rapists). What are they? Do they claim to be a "Christian" organization? There is no way they can make that claim, and this should be pointed out, and their fake theology exposed. Then, they are a self-serving club, and a political organization, they should be gone after on that basis as well.
As to Pat Robertson, Gerry Falwell et al, I believe that they are and have been connected to right wing entities including war profiteers, renegade spooks, etc., and that they are simply an old-style set-up disguised as a religion, to manipulate the American public politically.
Ditto the SBC. Take a look at who chaired their recent constitutional re-write. A politically funded organization that isn't even Baptist.
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Post by Ropegun on Feb 12, 2005 14:45:58 GMT -5
I agree about what should be. I agree that theologically speaking, these people seemt o not ever have read their book.
But we are not dealing with reality, Moses. We are dealing with perception. And we are dealing with supreme manipulators.
How is it that the TBN types can twist any scripture written into a reason to give them money? How is it that the masses that watch that crap actually send money in? And lots of it?
Fear, my friend,will motivate anyone to do just about anything. Fear of judgement, of going to hell. Fear of death. Why did'nt my brother in law want to go to Iraq? Because he is afraid to die there. Simple.
This, in my mind, is where the manipulation is enabled by the sheep. They are afraid to die, and want to live forever. And with the christian faith, or plenty of others for that matter, they can.
History has plenty of examples of the church at large using fear of death to get the masses to do as it wished. The irony is that the church has also killed more people than anything else I can think of. "Save yourself by accepting my just and loving g-ds will, or I will kill you". "Kill 'em all in the name of the lord". From the crusades to Iraq, it's all the same. And the manipulation of the more timid members of society is all the same too.
Look at the catholic church. How did they become so rich? By either manipulating peoples money from them, or by outright armed robbery and murder.
The current TBN set is a bit more subtle. At least they have been up until recently. Now, I think the "guilt trip" is used quite alot. And now, they are rich and powerful.
So sticking like glue to Jesus himself may be theologically sound, it does'nt make financial sense. Jesus was a communist, or something like one. He certainly was not a capitalist neocon corporate pig. I've never read anything saying that Jesus told us to sell our posessions and get an Ipod or a Hummer.
He said to sell your posessions and distribute the proceeds to whoever had need, so nobody has to go without. He said it was harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than to get a camel through a needles eye for a reason.
I agree that they are self serving. And I agree that they should be exposed. But you are'nt dealing with some simple little problem. It's quite large. If you attack the christian leadership, you will invariably incur the wrath of a vast amount of people. You will be marginalized, and labelled, and made to look like an idiot. If you do this in one of their churches, you will be thrown out.
This won't be an easy thing to do. I don't know what forums you have open to ou, but if you have any, I'd say use them. Dig deep and hard for information, but be careful. The christian church, in my estimation, is the most powerful influence in america right now.
Let me know if I can help.
Peace.
This is not an easy fight.
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Post by RPankn on Feb 12, 2005 23:00:40 GMT -5
No, I'm not offended by the discussion and, as Moses said, only certain things offend me. But even then, being in the South, I've had to learn a certain amount of self-control -- actually, around people like the ones being discussed in this thread because there's a racial supremacy component to their mindset -- because I been called a spic, asked what I was doing in particular place because my kind should be out doing drive-bys or holding up convenience stores. The latest one I get is people assuming I always got a dimebag on me, or can sell them one, or I got a prison record/warrants. That one makes me laugh because I've never touched drugs in my life and never been in trouble with the law. I could start a fight over some of those things, but I don't let it get to me because I feel more sorry for those kind of people and their ignorance. And, to me, its easier to reach people by educating them than getting up in their face.
Anyway, I don't have much to add aside from what's already been said and published about the Dominionists. Anyone who lives in the South and pays attention to what the SBC and religious broadcasters are up to knows that the "war on terror" is code to them for the events described in the Book of Revelation, which lead up to Armogeddon, and the context in which they view current events. One thing I don't think anyone has addressed though is that even after Bush is gone these people will still be around pushing their agenda and causing trouble for the rest of us, and how we put an end to this particular mindset, or marginalize it to the point that it no longer remains a threat, if we can.
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Post by Moses on Feb 13, 2005 6:03:23 GMT -5
The Roman Catholic Church should lose their tax exemption, after their clearly political sabatage by Bishops prior to the Presidential election. They are a thoroughly corrupt organization, as they have always been. For example, to get around the divorce rule, you simply pay the church $5,000 to declare your spouse a concubine and children bastards. Jesus mentioned divorce but never mentioned abortion. So they need to stop claiming to be "Christian".
The SBC should be exposed as a political organization, and the people who turned it into one should be exposed, along with their commercial entities.
Both should be exposed theologically, as well, and not tolerated when they claim to be "religious" because they are not.
One of our houseguests whose grandfather is an SBC minister in New Jersey, (black) said his sermons are all rants against gays. Where does he get the idea that this is central to Christianity? From the SBC. It is a political organization.
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Post by Moses on Feb 13, 2005 12:45:16 GMT -5
Paul WeyrichAmericans for Community and Faith-based Enterprise [Established by Bush/Rove in 2001, headed by Michael Joyce, former president of both the Bradley and John M. Olin Foundations—the latter of which funds AEI, Cato, Heritage, and Hudson, who previously worked for Irving Kristol. William Kristol is on the Board of Trustees, and William Bennet and Richard John Neuhaus is on the Board of Visitors ] The Classic Coalition for CAREBy Grover Norquist Published 5/27/2002 4:38 AM WASHINGTON, May 27 (UPI) -- As an activist and now President of "Americans for Tax Reform," I have practiced the art of building coalitions in Washington for more than a decade. It is an art more often attempted than achieved. Some groups try to meet the challenge by throwing "coalition" into their name and doing little else. In a handful of cases, a genuine coalition is forged that includes players from across the political spectrum. Once or twice a decade, however, a much deeper coalition emerges. That is what has happened with President Geroge W. Bush and his plan for community and faith-based initiatives. The coalition that has taken shape behind S. 1924, the Charity Aid, Recovery and Empowerment or CARE, Act of 2002, has not only transcended political differences, but it has also brought into harness a variety of groups that do not regard themselves as political actors at all. In my experience, coalitions like this are all but irresistible. The coalition embracing the CARE Act is practically a "Peaceable Kingdom" of charitable and educational institutions. It includes both conservative lions and liberal lambs. The National Council of Churches is comfortably listed along with the Southern Baptist Convention, the Islamic Institute with the United Jewish Communities, the National Council of La Raza with the Traditional Values Coalition. The last time these groups were seen in one place was a telephone directory. How was this coalition assembled? Here, too, the components of success have been unusual. From the beginning, President Bush invested energy and eloquence in a personal campaign that displayed his gift for friendly persuasion. He wielded powerful words on behalf of a vision that was distinctly American, but he did not stop there. He wielded a hammer in the hot Florida sun for Habitat for Humanity and drove a spike into a restored bridge as snow fell on the Ausable River in the Adirondacks. He took his message to every corner of the nation. Those who have stood beside the president as he demonstrated what personal compassion can accomplish have been struck by the same qualities: his energy and his genuineness. He turns what the White House ordinarily regards as photo opportunities into opportunities to leave an indelible impression. Successful coalitions require more than high-visibility leadership, however. In this instance, President Bush found the right man -- the right couple -- at the right time to build the buttresses for his faith-based initiative. Michael and Mary Jo Joyce had dedicated themselves for years to a similar vision of empowering local communities to address their own problems. As president of the Bradley Foundation in Milwaukee -- an adage holds that no revolution begins in a nation's capital -- Mike Joyce epitomized Ronald Reagan's credo that there is no limit to what someone can accomplish if they don't mind who gets the credit. Under his leadership, Bradley sifted, identified and supported faith-centered projects with a unique ability to change neighbor-hoods by transforming lives. Early last year, the White House asked the Joyces to apply their experience to this drive. They found an invaluable ally in Paul Fleming, a Phoenix-based philanthropist. Fleming had honed his entrepreneurial skills in the private sector, and he had been deeply moved by the work of Ella Hennix, a mother and activist whose faith-inspired work was making a difference where others had failed. With the help of Capital City Partners, a savvy Washington policy and public affairs shop, Fleming and the Joyces established Americans for Community and Faith-Centered Enterprise, the wheelhouse of the CARE Act coalition. No worthwhile coalition is friction-free. With patience and skill, ACFE-along with the Charitable Giving Coalition, a project created by three associations of fund-raising professionals-carried out a classic legislative campaign. They brought together not just the Washington offices of organizations that serve nonprofits but an array of local charities whose mere presence in the same room spoke volumes. More than 200 of these groups mobbed the old Senate Caucus Room on May 2 for a call day on the CARE Act. Senate offices are used to getting visits from university presidents, members of the clergy and people who run food banks and soup kitchens. They take notice when these visitors are in the same delegation. Twenty senators have now cosponsored the CARE Act, following the lead of Joe Lieberman and Rick Santorum. Eleven are Republicans, nine are Democrats. Sens. Cochran and Clinton, Bayh and Brownback, Cleland and Crapo are not often found on page one of the same bill. President Bush summarized the breadth of this vision well in his April 30 speech to the Commonwealth Club of San Francisco when he said, "These organizations, such as shelters for battered women or mentoring programs for fatherless children or drug treatment centers, inspire hope in a way that government never can. Often, they inspire life-changing faith in a way that government never should." The fate of the CARE Act is now in the hands of Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, who has voiced his support. In February he told the people of South Dakota that he "looked forward" to getting this measure signed into law. It is time for voices to become votes. The final component of success in the drive for S. 1924 is not one anybody would have wished for. Eight months after the terror of Sept. 11, the last wreckage of the World Trade Towers has been cleared and Ground Zero is a field of ashes. From those ashes a rebirth of charity has steadily emerged, a zeal for service that reaches skyward from a substrate of shared grief. The Charitable Aid, Recovery and Empowerment Act of 2002 will furnish fresh water for this springtime of renewal. Partisan maneuvers are inevitable in an election year, but this is one bill that is no candidate for that purpose. Mark Twain remarked in his autobiography that in his experience "hard-hearted people are rare everywhere." The CARE Act coalition proves that point once again. Let the Senate hasten S. 1924 to final passage, and let this summer begin with a signing ceremony for hope.
(Grover Norquist is president of Americans for Tax Reform, a nonpartisan citizens' lobby group.} Copyright © 2001-2004 United Press International <br>
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Post by Ropegun on Feb 13, 2005 21:37:59 GMT -5
Racial crap spewing is as bad as anything I can think of Pankn. Just goes to show that white people don't have a lock on intelligence, regardless of what some of them think. We're not all idiots.
I know the dominionist are all waiting expectantly for the trumpet blast, but that does'nt mean they're any more correct than the white bigots, or any bigot for that matter.
The thing that strikes me as odd is that those same celebrity christians are the ones making inroads in Washington, and making long term plans there, are the same ones spewing the "left behind b.s.
So, my question to them would be this. If they are so convinced that this rapture is going to happen, why are they so diligently trying to change the rules on earth? Why do they insist that everyone be like them if they teach the idea that they are the "chosen few"?
I somehow remember reading how Jesus met a rich young ruler. The young man asked Jesus what he needed to do to enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus asked him if he followed the prophets and the commandements. The man said he did all that but need to know what else he lacked. Jesus told him to sell all his posessions and give the money away to the poor. When the young man heard this, he turned and walked away, being very sad, because he was very wealthy. Jesus said to his associates that it is very difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven, In fact, its easier to get a camel throught the eye of a needle.
These people have made alot of money telling people that heaven is very close, and the return of the king is at hand. They have manipulated by fear alot of gullible people. At every turn they tell those who follow them that if they don't send money, or if they don't tithe, they are stealing from g-d. They have related every scripture there is to money, and how it should be given to them.
These organizations like the Southern Baptist Conference should be taxed as for profit corporations. When you use money taken from an offering plate to buy a Mercedes, or a Rolex, or an Armani suit, and live like an absolute pig, you should pay for this, like everyone else.
Just some random thoughts.
Peace.
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Post by Moses on Feb 14, 2005 16:51:23 GMT -5
Some twenty folks did linger in a small circle that was dominated by a persistent, well dressed man (let's call him Joe), who just would not let go: "Surely you agree that we need the oil. Then what's your problem? Some 1,450 killed thus far are far fewer than the toll in Vietnam where we lost 58,000; it's a small price to pay... a sustainable rate to bear. What IS your problem?" I asked Joe if he would feel differently were it to have been his son that was killed, rather than Cpl. Wichlacz, but the suggestion seemed so farfetched as to be beyond Joe's ken. (And therein lies yet another important story). So I resorted to a utilitarian approach. "Joe, we're just not going to be able to control the oil in Iraq. The war is unwinnable. There are 1.3 billion Muslims, and they are very upset with us; they will not let us prevail." But this too made little impact on Joe. How about Because It's Wrong I sized Joe up as one who would press for having the Ten Commandments prominently displayed in the courthouses of America. So I took a new tack, asking him, "Isn't one of those commandments about stealing... and one about killing... one about lying... and even one about coveting your neighbor's possessions? Would you think we might lop off those four and whittle the tablets down to the remaining six so as to spare ourselves potential embarrassment?" Joe walked off to drive his gas-guzzler home. Ray McGovern is on the Steering Group of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity. His 27-year career as a CIA analyst spanned administrations from John F. Kennedy to George H. W. Bush. -------
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Post by POA on Feb 14, 2005 19:26:09 GMT -5
Racial crap spewing is as bad as anything I can think of Pankn. Just goes to show that white people don't have a lock on intelligence, regardless of what some of them think. We're not all idiots. I know the dominionist are all waiting expectantly for the trumpet blast, but that does'nt mean they're any more correct than the white bigots, or any bigot for that matter. The thing that strikes me as odd is that those same celebrity christians are the ones making inroads in Washington, and making long term plans there, are the same ones spewing the "left behind b.s. So, my question to them would be this. If they are so convinced that this rapture is going to happen, why are they so diligently trying to change the rules on earth? Why do they insist that everyone be like them if they teach the idea that they are the "chosen few"? Unfortunately, their theology is more insidious than that, at least as far as the dominionists/'dominationists' are concerned. (I know there are other variants that agree on the actual, acted-upon agenda in terms of motive, although the actions are the same). They're waiting for the 'trumpet blast', but they believe that the 'trumpet blast' will only happen once they've created a kingdom of god characterized by blind obedience and intolerance to anything not like them, whether along religious, ethnic, or intellectual lines. They consider that to be the prerequisites for Jesus coming back. I agree with you about removing the tax immunity from religious organizations. Recently I read an excellent and newly released book called "Freethinkers in America" about the fight against encroaching religion that, really, we should never have had to fight and unfortunately, seem to be losing. It mentions that in the 19th century, Grant, when the issue of tax immunity for churches was first proposed, hated the idea and prevented it from occuring during his administration. His successors had no such qualms and it went into effect anyway. As far as the issue that someone else brought up on the thread of what to do with these people after Bush, I wish I had a better idea. The best idea I could really think of is perhaps if the US broke up and they really did have their own nation that they could run into the ground based on their ideas, without blaming everyone else (which is the real pattern), or taking the rest of the nation down with them in a spiral of violence/hatred and the inevitable counterattacks that they provoke. I would like to think that it is possible to rationally convince them otherwise, but in people that have this kind of belief system first-generation that's debatable. In people that have been inculated in it for generations, it seems even less likely.
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Post by Ropegun on Feb 14, 2005 21:23:45 GMT -5
The Rise of the Religious Right in the Republican Party a public information project from TheocracyWatch.org
"There will be Satanic forces... We are not... up just against human beings, to beat them in elections. We're going to be coming up against spiritual warfare." Pat Robertson, Road to Victory, 1991
In this section you will find: War on Secular Society Dominion Mandate Who is the Theocratic Right Estimate of political strength Why We Should Care War on Secular Society
"We need to find ways to win the war" Karl Rove, President Bush's political director told a gathering of the Family Research Council in March, 2002. The Family Research Council is one of the most powerful lobbying organizations of the Religious Right today. Rove wasn't talking about the war on terrorism. He was talking about the war on secular society.
The Reverend Tim LaHaye co-authored Mind Siege: The Battle for Truth in the New Millennium, published in 2000. The best-selling book issues a call to arms for evangelical Christians to battle against secular humanism. Mind Siege declares that secular humanism is a "religion," and issues marching orders to evangelical Christians to gear up for an all-out battle to root secular humanists out of public life; their bottom line is that "No humanist is fit to hold office."
LaHaye, best known for the Left Behind series, was one of the founders of the Moral Majority. He first declared war on secular humanism in 1980 with his widely read book, The Battle for the Mind, in which he claims that evangelicals need to become politically involved to fight the great evil, secular humanism, that is threatening to destroy America.
Paul Weyrich said in a talk:
"The real enemy is the secular humanist mindset which seeks to destroy everything that is good in this society."
Pat Robertson, founder of the Christian Coalition, explained the nature of the war on secularism in 1991 at a Christian Coalition Road to Victory gathering:
"It's going to be a spiritual battle. There will be Satanic forces.... We are not going to be coming up just against human beings, to beat them in elections. We're going to be coming up against spiritual warfare."
Robertson named his enemies in a 1992 newsletter, Pat Robertson Perspective . The list includes, among others, the National Organization for Women, the National Education Association, the National Council of Churches, the Gay-Lesbian Caucus, as well as People for the American Way, and Americans United for a Separation of Church and State. They are lumped together as the "Radical Left."
"The strategy against the American Radical Left should be the same as General Douglas MacArthur employed against the Japanese in the Pacific... Bypass their strongholds, then surround them, isolate them, bombard them, then blast the individuals out of their power bunkers with hand-to-hand combat. The battle for Iwo Jima was not pleasant, but our troops won it. The battle to regain the soul of America won't be pleasant either, but we will win it." (from the book, Pat Robertson, The Most Dangerous Man in America? by Rob Boston).
Noting that the country is facing a war in Iraq, Alabama Governor Bob Riley declared,
"There is another war going on in this country. This one is far more insidious. It's one that you just can't go and attack. It's a war for the absolute soul of this country."
Gov. Riley was Speaking to the Alabama Christian Coalition's "Friends of the Family" Celebration, March 8, 2003. Gov. Riley has asked his political allies to enlist in a crusade to restore the Christian character of America.
Rev. D. James Kennedy, pastor at the 9,000 member Coral Ridge Presbyterian and founder of the Reclaiming America for Christ movement reaches a viewing and listening audience of about 3.5 million people every Sunday morning. He talks about going beyond the destruction of the Berlin Wall to battering down
"the even more diabolical 'wall of separation' that has led to increasing secularization, godlessness, immorality, and corruption in our country."
"God has called us to engage the enemy in this culture war. That is our challenge today." Kennedy wrote in Character & Destiny: A Nation In Search of Its Soul, (Zondervan Publishing House, 1997). In the same book he states:
"How much more forcefully can I say it? The time has come, and it is long overdue, when Christians and conservatives and all men and women who believe in the birthright of freedom must rise up and reclaim America for Jesus Christ." (written with Jim Nelson Black)
If the theocratic right has declared war, they also see themselves as victims of war. Church and State reported, April, 2003:
"House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas) is helping a controversial Religious Right group raise money to defeat a so-called 'war on Christianity' in America and preserve the nation's alleged "Christian heritage."
DeLay has endorsed a campaign by the Rev. Lou Sheldon's Traditional Values Coalition (TVC), which claims in a recent fund-raising letter that it will raise $12.6 million to
"stop the all-out assault on Christians being waged by our government, by America's educational institutions, by the media and throughout popular culture."
Richard Viguerie, one of the founders of the theocratic right who pioneered direct mail fundraising for the movement, spoke on December 15, 2004, to Terry Gross on NPR's Fresh Air. He talked about how people of his belief have been attacked and victimized by secular society.
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Post by Ropegun on Feb 14, 2005 21:25:48 GMT -5
Dominion Mandate
Chip Berlet of Political Research Associates, an organization that monitors the religious right, sums up the goals of the movement in one word: dominion. Sara Diamond in her book Road to Dominion is credited with recognizing dominion as a political goal. She defines Dominion Theology in an article for Z Magazine in 1985:
Christians are mandated to gradually occupy all secular institutions until Christ returns.
"Our aim," according to Pat Robertson at a banquet in 1984, "is to gain dominion over society." The path to dominion was made clear when Robertson told the Denver Post in 1992 that his goal was to "take working control of the Republican Party."
Katherine Yurica's article, The Despoiling of America provides a comprehensive overview to Dominionism, the Bush administration, and the Neoconservatives. This is an especially important article.
Authors Mark Beliles and Stephen McDowell have written an influential textbook for Christian schools titled America's Providential History.
"The Puritans are prime representatives of this "spirit of dominion... They recognized the scriptural mandates requiring Godly rule, and zealously set out to establish that in all aspects of society."
The term dominion means control over, in this case control over all the democratic institutions in this country. Dominion theology provides the theological rationale for a "christian" nation.
John F. Sugg writes in the Weekly Planet, Tampa, Florida, March 2004:
Dominion theologians ... preached ... that it was Christians' job to take over the world and impose biblical rule. Christ would not return, they said, until the church had claimed dominion over all of the world's governments and institutions ...
In 2000, the Republican Party of Texas declared that it "affirms that the United States is a Christian nation." Last month, [February 11, 2004,] that sentiment reached the national level. The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004 would acknowledge Christianity's God as the "sovereign source" of our laws. It would reach back in history and reverse all judicial decisions that have built a wall between church and state, and it would prohibit federal judges from making such rulings in the future.
An article appeared in Harper's, March, 2003 called "Jesus Plus Nothing: Undercover among America's secret theocrats" by Jeff Sharlet. While the term "dominion" isn't used, the goal is the same. Says Sharlet, the ultimate goal of the Family is "a government built by God," which is by definition a theocracy.
On GNN.tv, June 13, 2003, Sharlet said, "We would be told time and time again, "Christ's kingdom is not a democracy.'"
This article from a Portland, Maine newspaper claims the "Family, or the Fellowship (both names are used by different sources), is a conspiracy theorist's wet dream."
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Post by Ropegun on Feb 14, 2005 21:27:58 GMT -5
Who Is The Theocratic Right?
This site is not about...
This site is not about religion. Many religious leaders, including those from mainline Christian churches, are deeply concerned about the religious right. The Interfaith Alliance, for example, "is a nonpartisan, clergy-led grassroots organization dedicated to promoting the positive, healing role of faith in civic life and challenging intolerance and extremism."
This site is not about Christianity. The theocratic right does not view mainline Christians as true Christians. Some call this movement the "Christian right," but there are many Christians who consider themselves at the right wing of the political spectrum, but don't necessarily support the agenda of the theocratic right. Likewise, many people identify themselves as "Christian" and "conservative," but don't support the goals of the religious right.
The term Evangelical should not be used as synonymous with the theocratic right. Evangelicals cover the whole political spectrum. Former President Jimmy Carter, America's first evangelical Christian president, still teaches Sunday school at his Baptist church in Plains, Georgia. He said in an interview with The American Prospect, April 5, 2004:
When I was younger, almost all Baptists were strongly committed on a theological basis to the separation of church and state. It was only 25 years ago when there began to be a melding of the Republican Party with fundamentalist Christianity, particularly with the Southern Baptist Convention. This is a fairly new development, and I think it was brought about by the abandonment of some of the basic principles of Christianity.
This site is not about Republicans. To quote a highly respected, very conservative Republican, former presidential candidate, Barry Goldwater,
Our problem is with ... the religious extremists ... who want to destroy everybody who doesn't agree with them. I see them as betrayers of the fundamental principles of conservatism. A lot of so-called conservatives today don't know what the word means. (1994)
From another seasoned Republican to whom Goldwater spoke those words, Bill Rentschler,
"Prepare yourself, fellow Americans, for historic change, the most dramatic and far-reaching change in your lifetime, a sweeping metamorphosis that may alter radically the distinctive, time-honored structure of the fabled American experiment, which has endured for most of the last 225 years."
The Republican Main Street Partnership, is a group of GOP moderates that includes Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine, Gov. George Pataki of New York, and Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger of California. Salon claims moderate Republicans are feeling desperate.
It's no wonder moderates are feeling desperate. After all, a faction within their own party is fighting to purge them -- and that faction includes some of the nation's most powerful Republicans.
This site is about...
While this site is not about Republicans, it is about Republican strategists who target fundamentalist, Pentecostal and charismatic churches as a way to expand the base of their party, and about a very specific group of religious leaders who are using the Republican Party as a way to gain dominion over society.
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Post by Ropegun on Feb 14, 2005 21:29:05 GMT -5
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Post by Moses on Feb 15, 2005 10:19:43 GMT -5
Republican moderates don't seem to be putting up much of a fight. Both Snow and Collins voted to develop new nuclear bombs, for example.
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Post by Ropegun on Feb 15, 2005 10:57:46 GMT -5
But what are the Dems, or any other party for that matter doing to fight this?
Looks to me that throughout recent history, the dems have played right along with the reeps.
My biggest question to you all is this.
What should we as a group be doing to bring this more into the light? How can we expose this? And I mean beyond simple letters to the editor and what not.
I don't want to be like SC, where everyone talks amongst themselves, preaching to the choir as it were, and not going much beyond that.
I'd like to have a forum to discuss strategies of bringing this out into the open, even if it means opening ourselves up to scrutiny and whatnot.
This whole discussion, and it's ramifications is pretty spooky to me.
Peace.
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