Anger at Party Hacks

[LibOne]

I'm going to take the opportunity offered by this site to state my anger at DLC hack James Carville and other DLCers who fought to maintain the mediocrity of the Democratic Party during our primary season. Carville had stated on Crossfire that Howard Dean "scared" him. Was he afraid he would become irrelevant to a Dean presidency or was he doing the Clintons' dirty work?

I'm also angry at the Clintons for talking Clarke into the race for the purpose of cutting into Howard Dean's support. Clarke never said it was the Clintons but he did say that was the reason he was asked to run. I hope that there is never a time when my presidential choices are Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush. The only thing that will cause me greater anguish than having to vote for John Kerry to get rid of Bush would be to have to vote for Hillary Clinton to stop another Bush.

And while I'm at it...
I know that Al Franken is the new hero of the left but he was part of the behind the scenes machinations to spin Kerry's war vote. Franken was so upset that Kerry wasn't getting the press Franken thought Kerry deserved that he arranged a little dinner party for Kerry to privately meet with left leaning columnists. Kerry got to polish his explanation of his war vote over and over until it had a nice, shiny gloss bright enough to blind his critics from the left. Why didn't Clarke get a dinner party to spin his tax proposals? Why not Carol Mosely Braun and her single payer health plan?

Yeah, I know, it's all water under the bridge but I feel better letting it all out.

[Moses]

I don't think it is water under the bridge.

And I believe the Governor of Iowa fixed the primary vote for Kerry, too-- he may get a VP slot out of it.

These people have full control of the Democratic Party -- a handful of people -- and they don't give a d**n about you or I or about the country or anything except maintaining their power.

One scenario that is discussed is that Hillary will take on Kerry in 2008, which means that she and her co-horts will continue to undermine undermine undermine for the sake of their own political power.

[POA]

Moses said:

I don't think it is water under the bridge.

And I believe the Governor of Iowa fixed the primary vote for Kerry, too-- he may get a VP slot out of it.

These people have full control of the Democratic Party -- a handful of people -- and they don't give a d**n about you or I or about the country or anything except maintaining their power.

One scenario that is discussed is that Hillary will take on Kerry in 2008, which means that she and her co-horts will continue to undermine undermine undermine for the sake of their own political power.

Such a course of action would practically guarantee the return of a Bush to the White House. From observation of the California recall debacle, nothing does DLC'ers in faster than when they really infight among each other for power with their normal problems (ie, taking all issues off the table).

On the bright side, however, that would give us a date to work towards: if our party or organization or whatever was ready by then, it would be easy to point out the obvious bankruptcy of ALL of them and gain advantage from it.

[Moses]

Also, there's a reason that Begala and Carville were given air time on the Wolfowitz network.

[LibOne]

I believe that several primaries and caucuses were fixed, not just Iowa. I believe that Oregon or Washington and Maine were also fixed for Kerry. This is what disgusts me the most. If I believed that Kerry won the primary fair and square and the media hadn't crucified Dean, I'd feel a little more comfortable voting for Kerry. I don't want Democrats to act like Republicans. The moral high ground would give us leverage in forcing paper receipts for electronic voting, campaign finance reform and fairness in media. But the Kerry/Gephart group that ran the vile anti-Dean ads in Iowa only proved that Democrats can be as corrupt as Republicans.

If Mr. Electability (someone on another site used this term and I think it's funny) gets into the White House it will not be of his own doing. It will be because Bush's misdeeds have caught up with him to finally turn swing voters against him.

[karpomrx]

I am so old that Dean seemed like a moderate.The economy, education,social support, all these used to be the "bread and butter issues" of the dems.
Now they are stuck in the patriotic lock-step that more than a half century of wars and "threats" have forced them to adopt in a servile attempt to be as "tough" as any of the mindless sociopaths that seem to be in charge of this madhouse we call a republic,
They have marginalized Kucinich so that I meet very few people that know anything about his platform, other than the fact that he is a radical or a dreamer.
Few have the sand to address any issues of substance for fear of losing votes in November.
Most of the electorate knows more about the latest sex scandal or brutal outrage of the day than they do about where their tax monies are being spent.
If someone were to come into your town and take your young people, send them off to be poisoned by radiological agents,or be killed outright in the sands of some stinking desert, you would be outraged. Yet, that is what we are allowing to happen.
The information is available, the flood of facts I find on this site confirms this.
People fear change. When times are hard they fear that change will make the situation worse.
Of what value is a free press if no one knows how to read?
I fear we have reached the point that Orwell described in his 1984-the words have no content, for there is no grasp of complexity.
This is a nation that believes freedom is the choice between a Big Mac or a Jumbo Jack.

[POA]

LibOne said:

I believe that several primaries and caucuses were fixed, not just Iowa. I believe that Oregon or Washington and Maine were also fixed for Kerry. This is what disgusts me the most. If I believed that Kerry won the primary fair and square and the media hadn't crucified Dean, I'd feel a little more comfortable voting for Kerry. I don't want Democrats to act like Republicans. The moral high ground would give us leverage in forcing paper receipts for electronic voting, campaign finance reform and fairness in media. But the Kerry/Gephart group that ran the vile anti-Dean ads in Iowa only proved that Democrats can be as corrupt as Republicans.

If Mr. Electability (someone on another site used this term and I think it's funny) gets into the White House it will not be of his own doing. It will be because Bush's misdeeds have caught up with him to finally turn swing voters against him.

I'm not doubting you, but I'm curious as to how you think that the other states you mentioned were stolen in the name of Kerry?

I hate that California has switched over to electronic voting.

What I also find extremely disturbing/angering is the attitude of the Kerry supporters/ABB'ers towards promoting their candidate. They might talk about 'swing voters', but they don't believe in essentially doing anything to actually promote Kerry except the ridiculous ideology that they're impressed by left-wing freeperism.

[POA]

Moses said:

Also, there's a reason that Begala and Carville were given air time on the Wolfowitz network.

I think that one serious lowpoint of the American political system (although I'm sure other nations have similar problems) is that it seems to function as a 'star' system with certain commentators and advisers getting a lot of attention in a way that's divorced from the content of what they're actually saying.

[LibOne]

POA said:

I'm not doubting you, but I'm curious as to how you think that the other states you mentioned were stolen in the name of Kerry?

I hate that California has switched over to electronic voting.

What I also find extremely disturbing/angering is the attitude of the Kerry supporters/ABB'ers towards promoting their candidate. They might talk about 'swing voters', but they don't believe in essentially doing anything to actually promote Kerry except the ridiculous ideology that they're impressed by left-wing freeperism.

There were incidents reported on the Dean for America Blog about from a precinct captain that said the caucus participants (I forget if it was Oregon or Washington) voted for Dean but actually saw the person entering data in the computer change the numbers. I believe there has been a formal complaint filed in this incident. Also, the final numbers from the Maine caucus still have not been reported. Once Kerry was declared the winner in the media, Maine officials never bothered to report the final count. People who have attempted to get this information have been ingnored.

I'm sorry I'm so sketchy on the details. I wish I had more precise information.

[POA]

Guest-LibOne said:

There were incidents reported on the Dean for America Blog about from a precinct captain that said the caucus participants (I forget if it was Oregon or Washington) voted for Dean but actually saw the person entering data in the computer change the numbers. I believe there has been a formal complaint filed in this incident. Also, the final numbers from the Maine caucus still have not been reported. Once Kerry was declared the winner in the media, Maine officials never bothered to report the final count. People who have attempted to get this information have been ingnored.

I'm sorry I'm so sketchy on the details. I wish I had more precise information.

This article was posted by BAC on the other message board. It's relevant to this topic, so I'm reposting it here:

Some votes miscounted in primary, officials say

By Luis Monteagudo Jr. and Helen Gao
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
April 8, 2004

County officials said yesterday they discovered a new problem with the flawed March election – 2,821 absentee ballots that were miscounted in the Democratic presidential and Senate Republican primaries.

The miscounted paper ballots did not affect the outcome of the races, and county officials have corrected the results.

The software glitch that caused the miscounts has raised new doubts among county officials about the $31 million electronic voting system used in the March primaries.

County Chief Administrative Officer Walt Ekard said his confidence in the system has been "dampened." Meanwhile, a state official raised the possibility for the first time that the system could be dropped for the November election.

"All options are on the table, including decertification," said Doug Stone, a spokesman for the Secretary of State's Office.

Ekard sent a letter to the manufacturer, Diebold Election Systems Inc., demanding that it fix the problems before November. A Diebold spokesman said the company will work with county and state officials on any problems.

During the March 2 election, one of the pieces of equipment used at polling sites was not fully tested, and it failed. That failure was one of the reasons cited in a county report for the delayed opening of more than a third of the county's 1,611 polling places.

The latest problem was discovered in the standard canvassing of votes that county officials conduct after an election.

Most of the absentee miscounts occurred in the Democratic presidential race, in which 2,747 votes cast for John Kerry were incorrectly credited to Rep. Dick Gephardt. In the Senate race, in which Bill Jones won, 68 votes cast for Barry L. Hatch were credited to candidate Tim Stoen, and six votes cast for James Stewart were credited to Stoen.

The miscounts occurred because multiple scanners simultaneously fed the absentee ballot data into the computer tabulation system. The large number of ballots and candidates on them overwhelmed the system.

Diebold spokesman David Bear said the company has provided a software fix to the county for the new problem.

Ekard wants Diebold to have all its equipment tested and certified before November.

"These performance failures are unacceptable," Ekard wrote. "Having a reliable and trouble-free voting system is absolutely essential to the county. Your failure to provide such a system in the March election was extremely troubling and any issues that remain must be fully resolved long before the November election."

Ekard has appointed Mikel Haas, the county's former registrar of voters, to oversee efforts to ensure that all Diebold equipment is certified for November and to evaluate other systems that could be used as an alternative.

Alex Martinez, a county deputy chief administrative officer who is leading an internal investigation into the electronic voting problems, said the county has not yet paid Diebold for the 10,200 touch screens used March 2.

"We are not about to pay Diebold any amount of money until we are totally satisfied with the performance of the system," he said.

The state Voting Systems and Procedures Panel is scheduled to discuss Diebold's performance in the March election at a two-day meeting starting April 21 in Sacramento.

Martinez said the county is waiting to see the outcome of the meeting before making any plans on using alternative systems. He said he believes the Diebold machines could be used successfully in November if the manufacturer corrects the problems promptly.

County Board of Supervisors Chairwoman Dianne Jacob said if the problems can't be fixed, "we need to change to a new system to make sure we have a reliable and trouble-free voting system in place by the November election."

The new problem also worried others.

"Unfortunately, what it does is raise more questions than it answers, and it continues to cause concern with the ability to have an election in November be accurate and reliable," said Nancy Sasaki, executive director of the ACLU of San Diego and Imperial Counties.

Pamela Smith, chairwoman of the local group SAVE-Democracy, which opposes electronic machines, said the problem reinforces her group's stand.

"Thank God there's paper there so they can recount it," she said of the absentee ballots.

www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20040408-9999-1m8vote.html

[spikeb]

Well, to be fair, the DLCers aren't the only hacks in the Party. One has to admit that most of the senate dems are pretty awful, as well as the rest of the party leadership.

[POA]

spikeb said:

Well, to be fair, the DLCers aren't the only hacks in the Party. One has to admit that most of the senate dems are pretty awful, as well as the rest of the party leadership.

True enough. Daschle's isn't a DLC'er but he's been a lump for years at this point.